Stream: europe
Topic: terminology services
Giorgio Cangioli (Jun 15 2020 at 13:53):
The possibility of publishing the used terminologies (value sets, local code systems) as FHIR resources in the IG is for us (as HL7 Italy) a big step ahead.
This seems however to have increased the expectations of our members, that start asking to support them also with terminology services (..whatever they can mean..). :blush:
Giorgio Cangioli (Jun 15 2020 at 13:53):
I was wondering if you have the same kind of requests and which solutions are you envisioning / have applied.
Giorgio Cangioli (Jun 15 2020 at 13:53):
Happy to discuss with you this topic and see if there are solutions that could be in case shared..
Christof Gessner (Jun 15 2020 at 14:12):
This is what we can offer as results of the work done in eHDSI: https://art-decor.ehdsi.eu/publication/epSOS/epsos-html-20200430T151521/terminology.html
Christof Gessner (Jun 15 2020 at 14:16):
As terminologies and model binding is not necessarily on the level of FHIR IGs, here is another current example where ART DECOR is used for sharing value sets: https://art-decor.org/art-decor/decor-valuesets--covid19f-
Jens Villadsen (Feb 12 2022 at 08:34):
@Giorgio Cangioli do you have a single IG just for main Italian terminology or is it spread across IG's/contained in IT IG core?
Jose Costa Teixeira (Feb 14 2022 at 07:14):
@Giorgio Cangioli and others - I'm also interested in common practices around this.
Giorgio Cangioli (Feb 14 2022 at 07:20):
Hi @Jens Villadsen and @Jose Costa Teixeira the current plan is to collect common terminologies / value sets in a separate guide (see https://build.fhir.org/ig/hl7-it/terminology/artifacts.html). Guide specific value sets / code systems are included instead in the guides.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 11:46):
@Lloyd McKenzie do you plan to do the same in Canada?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 11:47):
@Grahame Grieve what do you do in Australia? The same?
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 12:51):
look for "National Clinical Terminology Service" - the consumer level front of it is a FHIR terminology service, but it's bigger than just that. Most real terminology will be mastered through that
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 14:49):
So beyond an IG I presume?
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 14 2022 at 15:44):
Infoway in Canada hosts a bunch of Canadian terminology, though it's not (yet?) functioning as a proper terminology service. I'm hopeful it'll evolve that way eventually.
John Moehrke (Feb 14 2022 at 17:51):
I understood the question of: How do you support governance on terminology? is potentially different from How do you publish and make available the vocabulary? A terminology service is a fine way to make terminology available, but does not cover the questions of terminology governance. Where governance includes workflows like (a) propose new code, (b) propose a change to a code, (c) propose a valueset, etc...
Jose Costa Teixeira (Feb 14 2022 at 18:05):
The general answer to that one ("how do you support governance on.."):
With enough metadata.
Jose Costa Teixeira (Feb 14 2022 at 18:06):
Time and interest allowing, it would be good to put some practices to paper
Peter Jordan (Feb 14 2022 at 19:47):
Regarding governance, some countries have National Terminology Services that are governed by a central body. That's certainly the proposed approach here in NZ. We've also discussed have a dedicated National Terminology Services IG, rather than placing the terminology artefacts in other IGs. Interestingly, there is currently a Vocabulary WG Task Group looking at updating the somewhat outdated (i.e. not changed since DSTU2) Terminology Service Capability Statement in the FHIR Specification.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:14):
@John Moehrke The question was not " How do you support governance on terminology?" because the answer to that is usually processes and politics in some form - for better and worse. The question was more regarding how other affiliates technically publish the terminology and to what extent it takes the form of an IG. Regardless of being in an IG or not, naturally (I suspect) it will be loaded into a terminology service.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:18):
@Grahame Grieve something like https://www.healthterminologies.gov.au/tools/ - meaning snapper, shrimp and onto-server? Yeah, I'm familiar with that tooling, but is some of the content published in an AU IG?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:20):
@Peter Jordan - well ... that is only and example instance, but sure, it definitely could be a better example
Peter Jordan (Feb 14 2022 at 21:34):
The R5 FHIR Terminology Server Minimum Requirements Task Force remit is more extensive than that.
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 21:36):
Wherever possible, content is published to the nets for broad support within Australia. So I think that the igs will generally not contain many code systems, and few value sets either - only things that are not reusable elsewhere
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:37):
Well ... you don't have to provide supplement codesystems with translations I suspect
John Moehrke (Feb 14 2022 at 21:37):
Current practice in IHE is that there is a 'special' IG for vocabulary that is broadly useable (FormatCode for now). Governance, we use github issues, workflow, and change tracking. Formal publications are pinned.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:42):
(For process/workflow we follow trunk based development (more or less) and control all input and findings using github issues. Publications are tagged and released)
John Moehrke (Feb 14 2022 at 21:42):
right... and in IHE case, the code in github is an IG.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:46):
@Peter Jordan - Is it correctly observed that there are currently no european parties participating in the Task force calls as seen on (https://confluence.hl7.org/display/VOC/R5+FHIR+Terminology+Server+Minimum+Requirements+Task+Force+Calls)
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 21:59):
you don't have to provide supplement codesystems with translations I suspect
not much, but I don't think it would make any difference
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:39):
my hunch says something different
Peter Jordan (Feb 14 2022 at 22:40):
@Jens Villadsen meeting times (22:00 UTC) are late for Europeans, although there is representation from the author of the Terminology Server used in some European countries. There are Europeans on the TSMG, but no one from Europe regularly attends Vocabulary WG calls.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:42):
@Peter Jordan do you know if there just haven't been interest or why europeans dont attend?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:43):
I would flag such missing apperance to IC
Peter Jordan (Feb 14 2022 at 22:52):
@Jens Villadsen - I can't answer that question, but can certainly raise it at IC meetings. There is very strong European (and increasingly worldwide) participation in the SNOMED on FHIR group.
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Feb 25 2022 at 12:14):
Dear all,
In Austria a new e-Health terminology browser went online in early 2022 (https://termgit.elga.gv.at).
Documentation about the new terminology browser can be found at the following address. Here you will also find documentation about the GitLab repositories which we are using.
https://termgit.elga.gv.at/documentation_and_support_en.html
The browser is based on the TerminoloGit architecture which is based on various open source components and newly developed open source tools. This ensemble is completed by a FHIR server ("TX-AT"), which is expected to enter stable operation in Q3 2022.
With the combination of Git, GitLab, IG publisher, and a FHIR server we will be able to manage the whole publication process of terminologies. It is also possible to host terminologies which are maintained by external publishers.
Since TerminoloGit is fully open-sourced, this tool can also be used free of charge by anyone as a local terminology server. Automatic synchronization with the central TerminoloGit is basically possible. If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to contact us at cda@elga.gv.at.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 28 2022 at 09:24):
@Gabriel Kleinoscheg - first of all: it looks awesome. I'm definetly going to follow your efforts
Jens Villadsen (Feb 28 2022 at 09:27):
I have a question: It looks like you have gathered all of your codesytems and valuesets in a single IG probably covering multiple IG's/use cases/setups. Won't that cause problems for you in the future as you have to release ALL of it everytime any of those change? Have you considerd slicing it into multiple IG's?
Nikola Tanjga (Mar 04 2022 at 08:03):
Jens Villadsen said:
I have a question: It looks like you have gathered all of your codesytems and valuesets in a single IG probably covering multiple IG's/use cases/setups. Won't that cause problems for you in the future as you have to release ALL of it everytime any of those change? Have you considerd slicing it into multiple IG's?
For us its not a new release of the whole IG, if a terminology changes. We enhanced the underlying template and the functionality of the publication process in order to version single terminologies: https://termgit.elga.gv.at/CodeSystem-dgc-qr.previous-versions.html .
And yes, we have to deploy every time the whole IG and run the process for generating the IG, see https://gitlab.com/elga-gmbh/termgit/-/pipelines/charts?chart=pipelines
Jose Costa Teixeira (Mar 04 2022 at 08:08):
So you manage the versions at the artifact level, not at the IG level, is that correct @Nikola Tanjga ?
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Mar 04 2022 at 08:09):
Yes, exactly.
Jens Villadsen (Mar 04 2022 at 11:31):
Essentially controlled with https://gitlab.com/elga-gmbh/termgit/-/blob/main/sushi-config.yaml#L31, right (in terms of the IG)?
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Mar 04 2022 at 13:23):
Exactly!
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Mar 29 2022 at 10:06):
For those of you who are interested. We will give a short presentation of our terminology server project (see https://gitlab.com/elga-gmbh/termgit) at the next Vocab Main WG call on 31 March at 9:30 pm CEST.
Call details may be found here (from the last Vocab Main WG call): https://confluence.hl7.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=94641215
Jens Villadsen (Mar 29 2022 at 10:09):
will you be recording it?
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Mar 29 2022 at 11:13):
I'll ask the host of the call if that's possible.
Rob Hausam (Mar 29 2022 at 20:28):
@Gabriel Kleinoscheg @Jens Villadsen Yes, it is possible for us to record the call (either Gabriel's part or all of it), as long as those who are on the call are ok with doing that (which I would expect will be the case).
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Apr 04 2022 at 07:13):
@Rob Hausam I just wanted to ask where the recording of our presentation could be accessed?
Rob Hausam (Apr 04 2022 at 12:15):
@Gabriel Kleinoscheg It will be included on the Confluence page for the minutes (we can possibly also make it available elsewhere, but we can start there). I just didn't end up with time to get that uploaded yet (later last week or over the weekend), but I will do it this morning and will let you know when it is there. Sorry for the delay!
Gabriel Kleinoscheg (Apr 04 2022 at 14:28):
Thank you, @Rob Hausam. Publishing on the Confluence page would be sufficient for me.
Rob Hausam (Apr 04 2022 at 20:09):
@Gabriel Kleinoscheg Sorry that it took me a little while to finish, but the recording of your presentation and the chat text has been uploaded to the Confluence minutes page (in #4.a.). And I've also uploaded the recording and chat for the remainder of the call. I also still plan to add details to the minutes text (which anyone else is also welcome to do).
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
