Stream: nordics
Topic: Official Address
Grahame Grieve (Jun 07 2019 at 11:43):
Grahame Grieve (Jun 07 2019 at 11:43):
please endorse and add discussion about MnM's quesetion
Grahame Grieve (Sep 03 2019 at 21:30):
we just made further comment on GF#20743. Further comments sought
Jens Villadsen (Sep 04 2019 at 06:34):
Sounds like the proposal meets danish requirements. I agree with @Martin Grundberg
Grahame Grieve (Sep 04 2019 at 07:02):
well, we prefer a code, but that requires an extension for R3/R4.... so the extension bit comes anyway. Given that, we wonder whether a code is the right thing?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 04 2019 at 07:20):
it's kind of a faustian choice.... do you want a better long term outcome, or do you just want to stick with a hack?
Jens Villadsen (Sep 04 2019 at 14:57):
long term, IMHO
Thomas Tveit Rosenlund (Sep 05 2019 at 06:16):
I did make a comment on GForge. I guess both solutions can work for us, but the new code kind of cripples the address.use codes for Norway as we will have a lot of different official addresses registered in the new Master Person Index. I guess the solution will be that we only use address.use to indicate official addresses and have extensions to represent the Norwegian address.use and address.type. It would be a more elegant solution for us, if the ValueSets where extensible instead of required, because then we could add at least the type codes we need.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 06:21):
I don't understand this:
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 06:21):
the new code kind of cripples the address.use codes for Norway as we will have a lot of different official addresses registered in the new Master Person Index.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 06:22):
on the other hand, this:
It would be a more elegant solution for us, if the ValueSets where extensible instead of required, because then we could add at least the type codes we need
but then no one else would understand them. So it would only be elegant from some point of view.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 06:47):
alright from the task:
official-home, official-living, official-shared-living, official-contact, official-contact-abroad
What on earth are all these? how are they different? is this a national person index for health, or is it doing all citizenship services?
Viktor Jernelöv (Sep 05 2019 at 07:53):
I'm not speaking for Norway and Thomas here, but the situation in Sweden is a bit similar I guess in that we use a bunch of official, standardised, based in legislation address types in healthcare that come from the Tax Agency originally. The types used all have quite distinct business rules associated to them which makes it very hard to get a nice mapping using the original AddressType and combinations offered by the address.type and address.use elements.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 07:59):
is the list different to Norway's list?
Viktor Jernelöv (Sep 05 2019 at 08:04):
The whole AddressType itself is not convenient to work with, and I personally feel it's a bit too rough around the edges to properly reflect the Swedish address types without some off-band agreement that certain combinations of values are supposed to be interpreted as "our address type X".
We also have the situation where AddressType is used by other resources, such as Organization, where the concept of "official" is totally N/A, or at least has a distinctly different meaning which makes the idea of adding "official" as an address.use option a little less appealing if we want the "official" value to actually mean something and not just be a flag of some sort that each profile needs to add the semantics to.
TLDR; I'm think making the address.use and address.type extensible could potentially be a more elegant solution, but we're currently looking at providing extensions (or an extension with a valueSet binding) for our Swedish official address types in the national base profile.
Viktor Jernelöv (Sep 05 2019 at 08:11):
is the list different to Norway's list?
A little bit different, yes. We're looking at five (5) different address types that are commonly used in Swedish healthcare:
*Folkbokföringsadress ("official address" for a resident)
*Särskild adress ("special address", registered with the Tax Agency and governs where mail is sent even if you have a folkbokföringsadress etc)
*Utlandsadress ("address abroad", an address a Swedish citizen has that doesn't formally live in Sweden anymore)
*Tillfällig adress ("temporary address", an adress type used in healthcare but not officially recognized by the Tax Agency. Used for instance when people go to their summer house for a couple of weeks)
*Uppgiven adress ("stated/claimed address", used when a patient comes in whose identity can't be confirmed so no there's no official way of knowing where they live, so you just use the address they provide you with until you can verify their identity)
The explanations are my own so they might not be 100% correct, but should give you an idea at least.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 08:18):
Folkbokföringsadress = official
Särskild adress = billing
Utlandsadress = official + Country != Sweden
Tillfällig adress = temp
Uppgiven adress = home
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 08:18):
no?
Thomas Tveit Rosenlund (Sep 05 2019 at 08:20):
on the other hand, this:
It would be a more elegant solution for us, if the ValueSets where extensible instead of required, because then we could add at least the type codes we need
but then no one else would understand them. So it would only be elegant from some point of view.
Yes, that would be a problem. I guess one could argue that the use of national extensions in this case is a more robust solution. The downside is that some countries will not use address.use and address.type because they are to limiting. But that might actually be OK in this case.
alright from the task:
official-home, official-living, official-shared-living, official-contact, official-contact-abroad
What on earth are all these? how are they different? is this a national person index for health, or is it doing all citizenship services?
These are all from the national citizen services. Some of them are going to be of great interest to the health-care sector in Norway as they need to know the prefered contact information of the person. Nowadays we have to use the "official-home" address, and make local changes when that does not work. With the new sceme the person can register all (or most) relevant contact adresses, and even indicate where the person prefers to be contacted.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 08:22):
I guess one could argue that the use of national extensions in this case is a more robust solution
We always have for address (and some similar data types). Provide the base code and your own special code.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 08:23):
These are all from the national citizen services
right. with their focus on things of interest to the legal system. so I think that generic ode + national citizenship use extension is a good combination.... and you can even publish a concept map
Viktor Jernelöv (Sep 05 2019 at 08:25):
Utlandsadress would need the Patient.identifier.system to match the Swedish Personnummer as well, since we often get patients from other countries who actually have a home address in their respective country. That puts us in a situation where we'd force the use of Patient.identifier.system in our base profile which might not be ideal.
Särskild adress is also used as the "official" address for patients that have a Samordningsnummer but not a Personnummer (such as immigrants or people coming to Sweden to work) so billing would be a poor match.
Thomas Tveit Rosenlund (Sep 05 2019 at 08:26):
These are all from the national citizen services
right. with their focus on things of interest to the legal system. so I think that generic ode + national citizenship use extension is a good combination.... and you can even publish a concept map
Sounds OK to me. I guess a Concept map could be useful for implementers.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 08:26):
so just official + country != sweden? but I think you're saying, life is more complicated than that
Viktor Jernelöv (Sep 05 2019 at 08:28):
Using the AddressType and force values in AddressType.country and combine them with Patient.identifier.system works in theory to represent the patient addresses, but it's a messy logic and would be significantly easier to solve using proper extensions for these types.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 05 2019 at 10:11):
yes it sounds like it to me
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
