Stream: fhircast-github
Topic: fhircast-docs / Issue #248 May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why n...
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:54):
hl7-fhircast-bot opened Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:54):
hl7-fhircast-bot labeled Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:54):
hl7-fhircast-bot labeled Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:54):
hl7-fhircast-bot labeled Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:54):
hl7-fhircast-bot edited Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:58):
isaacvetter commented on Issue #248
Hey @keithboone , we actually started out by trying to fit this into FHIR -- specifically FHIR Subscriptions with a new resource of
UserSession. The ephemeral weirdness of the proposedUserSessionresource, plus implementer feedback from the Jan, 2018 connectathon (resulting in issue #13) caused us to move away from FHIR Subscriptions.
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 05 2019 at 01:04):
NiklasSvenzen labeled Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 05 2019 at 01:05):
NiklasSvenzen assigned Issue #248
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 23 2019 at 13:15):
wmaethner labeled Issue #248 (assigned to NiklasSvenzen):
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 23 2019 at 13:15):
wmaethner commented on Issue #248:
Proposed Resolution:
- For the CCOW references we can certainly make those more direct and actual references and links.
- Note that this isn't a one-to-one replacement of CCOW although it does solve some of the same problems as CCOW. Explain that FHIRcast is a less sophisticated, and more implementer friendly context synchronization standard.
- Reference #13 as to why we decided not to use Subscriptions and a new UserSession resource.
Plan on discussing this on the next WG call (5/28)
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 23 2019 at 15:15):
keithboone commented on Issue #248:
I understand that more work is happening in Subscriptions to make them more functional, and even driven. I seem to recall that this was something Josh Mandel was working on, at least based on a report out in Attachments workgroup. I would hope that FHIRCast and that work would be aligned.
KeithKeith Boone, Enterprise Architect
kboone@ainq.com | (617) 640-7007AUDACIOUS INQUIRY
Bold Solutions for Connected Healthcare®
ainq.com<https://ainq.com/> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/a_inq> | YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF-wA3wcjce8YniZhxy1O4Q> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/AudaciousInquiry/> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/audacious-inquiry-llc>
From: Will Maethner <notifications@github.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:15 AM
To: HL7/fhircast-docs <fhircast-docs@noreply.github.com>
Cc: Keith Boone <kboone@ainq.com>; Mention <mention@noreply.github.com>
Subject: Re: [HL7/fhircast-docs] May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page. (#248)Proposed Resolution:
- For the CCOW references we can certainly make those more direct and actual references and links.
- Note that this isn't a one-to-one replacement of CCOW although it does solve some of the same problems as CCOW. Explain that FHIRcast is a less sophisticated, and more implementer friendly context synchronization standard.
- Reference #13<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FHL7%2Ffhircast-docs%2Fissues%2F13&data=02%7C01%7Ckboone%40ainq.com%7Ce0954ece85a4447a9fdf08d6df80b865%7C307d212afb86480784dd867769b8042a%7C1%7C0%7C636942141291225919&sdata=NWb9kH0yfcNTN8MoBPTg7MUag1l%2FgqfRaFToCX37qCs%3D&reserved=0> as to why we decided not to use Subscriptions and a new UserSession resource.
Plan on discussing this on the next WG call (5/28)
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Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 23 2019 at 17:37):
isaacvetter commented on Issue #248:
Here's the draft FHIR Subscriptions work being done in Argonaut which includes moving from criteria of a FHIR query to a named and computable event via FHIRpath. It's unclear that Clinical Reasoning's EventDefinition resource will be used as part of this refactor of Subscriptions.
FHIRcast is not aligned with this early work in FHIR Subscriptions because FHIR doesn't contain the concept of a user's session. An event of "open-patient-chart" isn't reasonably expressed in FHIRpath, unlike an admit or discharge event.
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 23 2019 at 17:40):
keithboone commented on Issue #248:
You are missing my main point. I would like to see a common model for subscriptions that meets the needs of users, not different models for different use cases. The work should be harmonized, not taken off into two separate directions. There is enough overlap that they should be able to be aligned.
KeithKeith Boone, Enterprise Architect
kboone@ainq.com | (617) 640-7007AUDACIOUS INQUIRY
Bold Solutions for Connected Healthcare®
ainq.com<https://ainq.com/> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/a_inq> | YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF-wA3wcjce8YniZhxy1O4Q> | Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/AudaciousInquiry/> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/audacious-inquiry-llc>
From: Isaac Vetter <notifications@github.com>
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Subject: Re: [HL7/fhircast-docs] May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page. (#248)Here's the draft FHIR Subscriptions work<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fargonautproject%2Fsubscriptions%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fsubscriptions-as-event-streams.md&data=02%7C01%7Ckboone%40ainq.com%7Ca7048fb711014c7a636b08d6dfa55136%7C307d212afb86480784dd867769b8042a%7C1%7C0%7C636942298460641594&sdata=kmYrAZe9bdTMt37DYFZQV%2FH2Ke0kIIqxs16tWiYO4VY%3D&reserved=0> being done in Argonaut which includes moving from criteria of a FHIR query to a named and computable event via FHIRpath. It's unclear that Clinical Reasoning's EventDefinition resource will be used as part of this refactor of Subscriptions.
FHIRcast is not aligned with this early work in FHIR Subscriptions because FHIR doesn't contain the concept of a user's session. An event of "open-patient-chart" isn't reasonably expressed in FHIRpath, unlike an admit or discharge event.
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Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 28 2019 at 14:40):
keithboone commented on Issue #248:
Event
type: 1..1 Coding, maybe Code
session: 1..1 identifier
context: 0..*
patient: 0..1 Reference(Patient)
encounter: 0..1 Reference(Encounter)
study: 0..1 Reference(ImagingStudy)
reference: 0..* Reference(Any)Search:
type .. Token Event.type
session .. Token Event.identifier
patient .. Reference Event.context.patient
encounter .. Reference Event.context.encounter
study .. Reference Event.context.study
reference .. Reference Event.context.referenceEvent?type=switch-patient-chart&session=1245
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 30 2019 at 16:18):
wdvr commented on Issue #248:
First of all I would like to state that I really like the suggestion @keithboone makes architecturally. But I would still like to advocate not going in this direction for now.
One of the things I like about the current proposal for FhirCast is that it is very lightweight. You only need to subscribe using an URL, and get called on a callback with a JSON indicating the changes.
While I understand that the issue brought up here is asking for more coherence with the current state of FHIR (it is in the end called FhirCast), this would mean it would be less usable for existing older software which doesn't have a (full) FHIR implementation. That would imo decrease the usage of the proposed standard, and slow down fhircast adoption. If I look at the active software in our company, I would estimate that the amount of products planning to implement Fhircast would be cut in half, due to usage of plain HL7 in existing software.
I understand that for a textbook FHIR software implementation, @keithboone's suggestion might make implementation slightly easier, but it would make the non-full-FHIR implementations disproportionally harder.
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Jun 20 2019 at 13:58):
isaacvetter commented on Issue #248:
Thanks, @wdvr .
Proposed Resolution: Not Persuasive
Proposed Resolution Comment: We will update CCOW references to point to HL7 published material as suggested. Further, we will clarify that FHIRcast is not a one-to-one replacement of CCOW, although it solves some of the same problems as CCOW and explain that FHIRcast is intended to be a less sophisticated, and more implementer friendly context synchronization standard. The more far-reaching suggestion of harmonizing FHIR's event and subscription modeling to accommodate user session-type events is perhaps a viable approach, but unlike our current WebSub approach, has not been fleshed out and has had no implementer experience or feedback and therefore not persuasive.
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Jun 20 2019 at 14:36):
isaacvetter edited a comment on Issue #248:
Thanks, @wdvr .
Proposed Resolution: Not Persuasive with Mod
Proposed Resolution Comment: We will update CCOW references to point to HL7 published material as suggested. Further, we will clarify that FHIRcast is not a one-to-one replacement of CCOW, although it solves some of the same problems as CCOW and explain that FHIRcast is intended to be a less sophisticated, and more implementer friendly context synchronization standard. The more far-reaching suggestion of harmonizing FHIR's event and subscription modeling to accommodate user session-type events is perhaps a viable approach, but unlike our current WebSub approach, has not been fleshed out and has had no implementer experience or feedback and therefore not persuasive.
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Jun 20 2019 at 14:37):
isaacvetter commented on Issue #248:
## :telephone_receiver: II Working Group Vote (6-20-2019)
Meeting notes: https://confluence.hl7.org/display/IMIN/Teleconferences
@JohnMoehrke moved the following disposition, seconded by Bill Wallace
Disposition: Not Persuasive with Mod
Disposition Comment: We will update CCOW references to point to HL7 published material as suggested. Further, we will clarify that FHIRcast is not a one-to-one replacement of CCOW, although it solves some of the same problems as CCOW and explain that FHIRcast is intended to be a less sophisticated, and more implementer friendly context synchronization standard. The more far-reaching suggestion of harmonizing FHIR's event and subscription modeling to accommodate user session-type events is perhaps a viable approach, but unlike our current WebSub approach, has not been fleshed out and has had no implementer experience or feedback and therefore not persuasive.:+1: For: 11
:expressionless: Abstain: 0
:-1: Against: 0:tada: The motion passed! :tada:
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Jun 20 2019 at 14:37):
isaacvetter labeled Issue #248 (assigned to NiklasSvenzen):
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Sep 03 2019 at 22:08):
isaacvetter labeled Issue #248 (assigned to NiklasSvenzen):
May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Sep 10 2019 at 13:55):
isaacvetter closed Issue #248 (assigned to NiklasSvenzen):
May 2019 Ballot Comment: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Submitted by @keithboone
Chapter/section: Overall
Url:
Type: NEG :exclamation:
In Person requested: Yes :bust_in_silhouette:Summary: Why not FHIR Subscriptions? Also, link to HL7's CCOW page.
Comment: FHIRcast uses concepts such as Event and Subscription which clearly overlap with current FHIR Resources (see Subscription and EventDefinition), but have a different model than FHIR. Why not extend the current FHIR Subscription model to support Subscription to an Event resource (which is clearly implied by the EventDefinition resource). This specification is clearly a CCOW replacement, yet you say little about CCOW, and use a Wikipedia cross reference instead of a reference to the HL7 CCOW Specifications when speaking of the CCOW Abstract model. Would prefer you reference an HL7 document rather than Wikipedia. In-person resolution please.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
