Stream: fhircast-github
Topic: fhircast-docs / Issue #152 May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo:...
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:52):
hl7-fhircast-bot opened Issue #152
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:52):
hl7-fhircast-bot labeled Issue #152
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:52):
hl7-fhircast-bot labeled Issue #152
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Apr 30 2019 at 19:52):
hl7-fhircast-bot edited Issue #152
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 07 2019 at 04:55):
isaacvetter commented on Issue #152
Hey @RicardoQuintano,
I specifically chose the female 3rd person pronoun when writing this sentence due to a mere personal tic of periodically and randomly ascribing the female genders to theoretical people.
The FHIR Conformance language doesn't address this topic and RFC 2119 is only about the actual conformance verbs to be used.
I'm a bit at a loss of how to figure out best practice for a formal technical specification's use of genderless pronouns in English. Even in informal English, this is a mess. Personally, I don't believe that they or their is a precise 2nd person pronoun. The distinction between 2nd and 3rd person is appropriate! Perhaps even more appropriate than the distinction between male and female genders. :thinking:
Following a scan of the referenced links below, I'm more inclined towards your proposed change, but also don't see the harm in using the feminine posessive.
Can you reference any definitive sources for justification of your proposed change?
Isaac
- This nytimes editorial has an interesting, historical justification for misusing 3rd person pronouns.
- The federal Canadian government suggests using "the singular _they_" [sic].
- The wikipedia article on (3rd person pronoun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-person_pronoun) states that "the singular they ... is unexceptional and often not regarded as incorrect, especially in informal language" (although it seems that we should strive for greater than this...).
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 07 2019 at 04:56):
isaacvetter edited a comment on Issue #152
Hey @RicardoQuintano,
I specifically chose the female 3rd person pronoun when writing this sentence due to a mere personal tic of periodically and randomly ascribing the female genders to theoretical people.
The FHIR Conformance language doesn't address this topic and RFC 2119 is only about the actual conformance verbs to be used.
I'm a bit at a loss of how to figure out best practice for a formal technical specification's use of genderless pronouns in English. Even in informal English, this is a mess. Personally, I don't believe that they or their is a precise 2nd person pronoun. The distinction between 2nd and 3rd person is appropriate! Perhaps even more appropriate than the distinction between male and female genders. :thinking:
Following a scan of the referenced links below, I'm more inclined towards your proposed change, but also don't see the harm in using the feminine posessive.
Can you reference any definitive sources for justification of your proposed change?
Isaac
- This nytimes editorial has an interesting, historical justification for misusing 3rd person pronouns.
- The federal Canadian government suggests using "the singular _they_" [sic].
- The wikipedia article on 3rd person pronoun states that "the singular they ... is unexceptional and often not regarded as incorrect, especially in informal language" (although it seems that we should strive for greater than this...).
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 07 2019 at 14:02):
RicardoQuintano commented on Issue #152
Hi @isaacvetter ,
I proposed this update since the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session" is a formal description of the user-hibernate event and not just an example. Thus, in this case, I would expect a gender-neutral pronoun, since a user can be female or male.
In the Oxford dictionary I found (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/they) I found:
"third person plural singular Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.‘ask a friend if they could help’ "
Another option could be to re-write the sentence. E.g. "User temporarily suspended her or his session" or "Users temporarily suspended their sessions" or "The session is temporarily suspended by the user".
I will check for more formal (definitive) sources for the "singular they" usage.
Best,
Ricardo
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 08 2019 at 17:53):
RicardoQuintano commented on Issue #152
"Nowadays, we often see gender neutral forms (e.g. he or she, he/she, s/he, (s)he, they and him or her, him/her, them) when we do not know if the person referred to is male or female:
The bank manager could help with your problem. He or she will probably be able to give you a loan. (or … he/she will probably be able to … or … they will probably be able to …)
Go to a hairdresser. Ask him or her to come up with a style that suits you, your hair, your lifestyle. (or … ask him/her to come up with a style … or … ask them to come up with a style …)
When you get into the building, go to the person on the desk in the reception area. They can tell you where to go. (or He or she can tell you where to go.)"
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 08 2019 at 18:31):
wmaethner commented on Issue #152
## Montreal May 2019 Working Group Vote
Anthony Julian moved the following disposition, seconded by Ricardo Quintano
Disposition: Persuasive with mod
Disposition Comment: Will update examples throughout the spec to avoid gendered pronouns where reasonable.:+1: For: 11
:expressionless: Abstain: 1
:-1: Against: 0:tada: The motion passed! :tada:
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (May 08 2019 at 18:31):
wmaethner labeled Issue #152
## May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Github Notifications (FHIRcast) (Sep 10 2019 at 18:45):
isaacvetter closed Issue #152:
May 2019 Ballot Comment: Typo: her session
Submitted by Ricardo Quintano Neira
Chapter/section: Event Catalog (user-hibernate)
Url: https://fhircast.hl7.org/specification/May2019Ballot/index.html
Type: A-TSummary: Typo: her session
Comment: In the sentence "User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume."
Update the word her to their
Existing wording: User temporarily suspended her session. The user's session will eventually resume.
Proposed wording: User temporarily suspended their session. The user's session will eventually resume.
_This issue was imported by @hl7-fhircast-bot from the consolidated FHIRcast May 2019 ballot spreadsheet._
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
