Stream: Orders and Observation WG
Topic: APGAR profiling
Brett Esler (Sep 18 2018 at 06:28):
Would there be any prior work on and APGAR profile? - I have a draft one going at http://build.fhir.org/ig/hl7au/au-fhir-childhealth/StructureDefinition-apgar-score.html which I believe aligned with APGAR examples in core specification. Would the working group have any interest in taking this up for further work?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 18 2018 at 11:14):
there was work on agpar in the past (pre-FHIR). One outcome I remember is that APGAR differs between countries
Brett Esler (Sep 18 2018 at 13:48):
thanks - that would have been Patient Care TC perhaps?
Eric Haas (Sep 18 2018 at 16:15):
What do you mean precisely by 'taking this up' in the context of OO ?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 18 2018 at 20:50):
publishing a profile, I suppose,would be the question. It was PC. It might be CIMI now. @Stan Huff ?
Eric Haas (Sep 18 2018 at 21:17):
Well, I put an example in the build and everybody had an opinion. I’m not keen on profiling in FHIR since I think we have other priorities.
Eric Haas (Sep 18 2018 at 21:18):
Based on past experiences lots of discussion when put profiles in the build.
Rob Hausam (Sep 18 2018 at 21:45):
I believe that CIMI certainly has an interest in this, but hasn't gotten to it yet (and may not for a while) - others more directly involved can correct that, if needed.
Stan Huff (Sep 18 2018 at 22:54):
This is certainly of interest to CIMI. As far as I know we have not made a profile yet but I think it would be pretty straight forward. Is it just PC and OO that have interest or is the audience wider? How soon would you like a profile?
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:25):
FYI, I think @Brett Esler was looking for an internationally scoped profile which I think is harder because of jurisdiction code system preferences.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:26):
Au wouldn't be different to US in that regard. Could we specify an APGAR and allow either SCT or LOINC? would that not cover all the bases?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:27):
William Goosen did good requirements analysis on this - it was published as a v3 profile
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:34):
yes he did and LOINC created L-forms which is what I used for the examples. I did quite a bit of work on this a while back and the examples are mapped to both LOINC and SNOMED. But in the end still passionate complaints.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:35):
that mean's you're getting somewhere. what were the complaints about?
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:43):
The usual. that I did not know what i was doing and read openehr and the l-form only covers terminological aspects of Apgar Score. It does not properly address the full information model gamut. William Goosen was also not a fan.
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:44):
oh and I should not have been so bold as to attempt an example without a profile.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:45):
does the example still exist?
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:46):
I think Clem is Ok with them though :-)
http://build.fhir.org/observation-examples.html#10.1.7.8
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:46):
so was the criticism that the exmaple was wrong? or just there's a lot more to say?
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:49):
Its been about 2yrs so I don't recall exactly.. I really think it was more just there's a lot more to say and maybe in hindsight was a lack of understanding for the scope of Observation vis a vis other resources. I haven't looked at it much since then
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:53):
I think it would be better as a form and record the scores Observations. I think Rob and I would disagree whether they should be components or not.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 19 2018 at 00:54):
well, we could certainly have a questionnaire, on the basis that's a sample ,not the specified way to gether th the data. and it would be good to sort out the recommended representation somewhere
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 00:56):
I'll check with Regenstrief if they have done this in FHIR for their Lforms already.
Rob Hausam (Sep 19 2018 at 02:11):
@Eric Haas Hmm. I guess that depends on whether you think it should or could be done using components - my take is that this is a place where using components probably makes a lot of sense. The individual Apgar score items certainly are interpreted together and I don't think they likely have a lot of utility as standalone observations.
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 20:13):
From Clem:
Believe that at present Lforms get converted to FHIR questionaires. And can be stored questionnaire responses but I don’t think that Regenstrief currently stores them as questioaires. We are working to synchronize what is happening on the FHIR committees with what RI distributes
Be aware that lots is going on. And the SDC wg has just balloted a spec for a more sophisticad questsionair. And the NLM widget will be 98% compliant with that spec in the Jan-feb time frame and after the spec is approved. SDC is a super set of questionair.
Eric Haas (Sep 19 2018 at 20:13):
I think our job is done here :-)
Lloyd McKenzie (Sep 19 2018 at 21:36):
Expressing it using Questionnaire and expressing it using Observation are two different things. We need to be able to do both...
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
