Stream: devices
Topic: How to find whether a Patient is on ventilator
Prasanth Vijayan (Mar 11 2021 at 14:00):
I want to check whether a particular patient (with Id) is on ventilator. I am planning to use the following method:
- Query Device with patient ID.
- If Device is available and its code corresponds to ventilator, then it is assumed that the patient is on ventilator.
Is it a good way to do using FHIR? Or Should query service request for ventilator? Which method shall be good.
Thank you for the help!
Todd Cooper (Mar 11 2021 at 14:54):
"assumed" is never a good thing when talking about medical devices connected to patients ... ! :grinning:
IOW your question is whether a device is in ACTIVE use for a specific patient ... it is a question of timestamps and not just relationships (references) ... though there are some other approaches "in the works" that should more directly address this, including a FHIR-based PCIM profile and related resources.
@John Rhoads @Stefan Karl ... your opinions on this?
John Rhoads (Mar 11 2021 at 22:51):
@Prasanth Vijayan As @Todd Cooper says, when associations between patients and device data sources are not really, truly known to be right, things can go very, very badly. Every clinician in every risk analysis meeting I've ever been in when this topic comes up has rightly pointed out, "you can kill the patient" (by treating the patient on the basis of the wrong person's physiological state). So you want to step carefully, with a thorough analysis of everything that could possibly go wrong in your methods for attributing real-time data to a particular patient identity. There is some discussion of this in an IHE Device domain white paper and "trial implementation" HL7 V2 profile about "Point-of-Care Identity Management". See https://ihe.net. There is new work and prototyping going on in an IHE committee which will probably lead to a FHIR profile. Let me know if you are interested in sitting in or participating.
Todd Cooper (Mar 12 2021 at 01:01):
And that goes for even trying to ascertain if a specific patient is intubated with a ventilator ... right now.
Prasanth Vijayan (Mar 12 2021 at 11:34):
Ok Thank you very much. I need to have a detailed study in this topic. :)
Lin Zhang (Mar 28 2021 at 01:39):
There could exist a gap/lag between the record/data and the reality even when the ventilator was connected.
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
