FHIR Chat · identifiers · new zealand

Stream: new zealand

Topic: identifiers

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 01:38):

Hi all - am thinking of looking at implementing FHIR representations for NZ content particularly support for identifiers: Patient - NHI, Practitioner - HPI, Registration No. (?), Organization - HPI, Health Facility No. (?) has anyone any suggestions for 'system' allocations etc. for these, other identifiers? AU version of identifiers can be found at https://github.com/fhir-au/smart-on-fhir.github.io/wiki/fhir-au-identifiers

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 01:39):

yes - i am a lurking Australian but might have a need to do this in the near future...

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 02:05):

Aussies welcome! We haven't given it a lot of thought yet, but would be good to align. We do currently have OID's for most of these (and we do love OID's, don't we)...

Peter Jordan (Mar 31 2016 at 02:09):

http://nhi.health.nz/ was proposed for NHI numbers. The HPI numbers will need a node to distinguish practitioner (CPN), organisation (ORG) and facility (FAC) numbers. Maybe http://hpi-cpn.health.nz/, http://hpi-org.health.nz/ and http://hpi-fac.health.nz/. No ideas on the 17-odd professional body registration numbers currently used in NZ, hopefully adoption of HPI-CPN (which will extend to all healthcare workers) will render these obsolete in exchange use cases?

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 03:49):

<Patient>
    <identifier>
      <type> 
            <coding> 
                <system value="http://hl7.org/fhir/v2/0203"/>
                <code value="NI"/>
               <display value="National unique individual identifier"/>
           </coding>
           <text value="NHI"/> 
       </type>
        <system value="http://nhi.health.nz "/>
        <value value="EPT6335"/>
    </identifier>
</patient>
```.xml

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 04:02):

<Practitioner>
    <identifier>
        <type> 
            <coding> 
                <system value="http://hl7.org/fhir/v2/0203"/>
                <code value="NPI"/>
                <display value="National provider identifier"/>
            </coding>
            <text value="HPI-CPN"/> 
        </type>
        <system value="http://hpi-cpn.health.nz"/>
        <value value="CPG6115"/>
    </identifier>
</Practitioner>

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 04:05):

<Organization>
    <identifier>
        <type> 
            <coding> 
                <system value="http://hl7.org/fhir/v2/0203"/>
                <code value="NOI"/>
                <display value="National Organization Identifier"/>
            </coding>
            <text value="HPI-ORG"/> 
        </type>
        <system value="http://hpi-org.health.nz"/>
        <value value="GAC3451"/>
   </identifier>
</Organization>

Brett Esler (Mar 31 2016 at 04:07):

the identifier.type (v2 table 203) aligns with AU usage for our IHI, HPI-I and HPI-O - thinking about facility...

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 16:49):

We've had this discussion in the context of the work we're going at Orion (and confused the heck out of me at the time), but I' be interested in understanding the rationale behind including the identifier.type as well as identifier.system (in this case). Given that identifier.system would reference a NamingSystem resource that describes what it is - what is the value of type?

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 19:34):

if the system is reslolvable, and if the NamingSystem has the type, then putting it the instance simply saves resolution.

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 19:56):

sorry, still don't get it. AFAIK the type is intended to be a grouper (this is a drivers license) rather than teh specific (this is an NZ drivers license) which would be in system. If you didn't know what identifier.system was, then type won't help you...

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:00):

yes it will if your task is

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:00):

'put the passport number here'

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:00):

e.g. on a screen

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:05):

and there's a nunmber of circumstances where that's what you do. In fact, drivers' licenses, passport numbers and most of all MRN work like this - lots of issuers, sometimes unknown, but it doesn't matter

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 20:11):

OK - that makes sense for that Use Case. But it's a UI hint - it isn't needed to 'resolve' the identifier (that is the job of Identifier.system)

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:42):

well, I think of it as an interface hint - screen ui, paper report, system to system interface - you often encounter 'put identifier of this type here'

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:43):

not so much v2, but other edi type interfaces

Grahame Grieve (Mar 31 2016 at 20:43):

but v2 is very type orientated. you often have a value and type and not a system

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 20:50):

true...

Peter Jordan (Mar 31 2016 at 22:23):

@Brett Esler Please note that the HPI identifiers are formatted differently to NHI numbers...refer to http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/health-identity/health-practitioner-index/hpi-information-health-it-developers

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 22:24):

can you give an example of what an HPI might look like?

Peter Jordan (Mar 31 2016 at 22:35):

• HPI-CPN = 18ABCD (2nd char is a check digit..don't ask me why this is constrained to 0-9!)
• HPI-FAC = FB9964-G (1st char is a constant, last 2 a hyphenated check digit)
• HPI-ORG = GC8975-J (1st char is a constant, last 2 a hyphenated check digit)

David Hay (Mar 31 2016 at 22:55):

and these are all used for different purposes right? CPN (Common Person Name) for an individual, FAC for a facility & ORG for an organization. S, really 3 different 'systems' (maybe the same type is that is to be included)

Peter Jordan (Mar 31 2016 at 23:04):

@David Hay Right - 3 different identifier systems are required for HPI as suggested above. Not sure about a single type - depends on what Identifier Type Value Set is used and whether that contains a single concept for healthcare provider/worker, healthcare facility and healthcare organisation. We need to do some research on that.

Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC