Stream: australia
Topic: SMART App Launch Connectathon
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 00:13):
What are you all hoping to achieve at this connectathon?
Who's planning to try to create what?
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 00:17):
I'll be helping whoever needs things...
Jacek Krzychylkiewicz (Nov 23 2021 at 00:19):
...screen has frozen ...cannot hear Brian
Deanne Ukovich (Nov 23 2021 at 00:20):
I'm keeping an ear out for solutions to problems I've encountered with SMART-on-FHIR apps to see how others are handling them.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 00:21):
Looks like Zoom crashed.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 00:21):
Heath and I are back in there.
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 00:22):
@Deanne Ukovich what sort of problems have you had?
Deanne Ukovich (Nov 23 2021 at 00:24):
passing additional resources and info to improve performance
Robby Mulvey (Nov 23 2021 at 00:25):
Hi everyone, I'm joining on behalf of Epic today from our Melbourne office! I'm happy to work with you all and below is a QR code for a test patient with 2 Pfizer doses for reference/troubleshooting. Please let me know how I can continue to help!
image.png
Deanne Ukovich (Nov 23 2021 at 00:25):
controlling over what the smart-on-fhir-app does .. for instance which codes it uses
Carlo Bueno (Nov 23 2021 at 00:33):
Hi, just want to confirm my understanding on something. The metadata and .well-known configurations contain info on how the SMART app should be authorized. Hence the metadata and .well-known endpoints themselves should not require authentication, correct?
DW (Nov 23 2021 at 00:34):
hear to learn, first timer with clinical and implementation b/g. Particularly interested in possibility of a smart app for CVD risk calculator as our team is involved in updating Australian CVD risk guidelines currently. The dream is to facilitate development of an app which can be implemented through all Aus major software CIS and has ability to extract patient info to calc score and then write back to clinical record.
Josh Mandel (Nov 23 2021 at 00:40):
@Carlo Bueno precisely so
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 00:42):
@DW do you have an existing app?
DW (Nov 23 2021 at 01:04):
Hi @Heath Frankel to clarify it is Deb Wong here from ANU - was on the call with you, Brett and Kate the other day. Thanks for the update on the approaches you and John and team discussed re CVD calc. I'm going to head to the FHIR tutorial now and re-join track later. and Thanks @Brian Postlethwaite for addressing my comment too. You mentioned a smart app height example - where can I find this?
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 01:15):
Windows Legacy App SMART Host reference implementation
https://github.com/brianpos/smart-on-fhir/tree/feature/au-token
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 01:15):
https://www.nuget.org/packages/brianpos.Fhir.R4.SmartAppLaunch.Support/3.6.0-beta2
Chandan Datta (Nov 23 2021 at 01:15):
Thanks for the GitHub link
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:17):
@Robby Mulvey how can we use this QR code in the context of smart launch? Are you providing this QR only for us to decode (if we have the ability too) so we can access the record?
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:19):
@DW hi Deb. Yes hopefully we will have something for you to review in the next few days/weeks...
Robby Mulvey (Nov 23 2021 at 01:30):
Heath Frankel said:
Robby Mulvey how can we use this QR code in the context of smart launch? Are you providing this QR only for us to decode (if we have the ability too) so we can access the record?
Correct - this is an example QR code for decoding with patient info (name, DOB) and 2 doses of vaccination information. This is similar to what our customers in Canada and the USA are using for SMART cards today.
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:46):
Anyone working on the CVD Risk want to breakout or happy to stay here to listen in?
@Jim Steel
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:46):
I'm working on it, but I'm struggling back at just getting a basic expressJS service started
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:46):
My plan is just to build a little service that takes in a Bundle and returns an Observation
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:47):
harvesting just whatever I can find in the bundle that plays into the calculations, with the intention that it could be used by either a SMART app or a questionnaire
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 01:50):
https://confluence.hl7australia.com/display/AFR/SMART+Launch+CVDRisk+Calculator+Playzone David pushed an NZ javascript
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 01:50):
looked at some basic search for inputs...
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 01:50):
I think all can edit this page now; when logged into confluence
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:51):
Cool, that'll be handy
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:51):
I am implement http://www.cvdcheck.org.au/calculator as a questionnaire for a starting point, it was the simplest of the 3 that I provided the other day.
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:51):
... once I learn how to use express/fhirclient.js to get something basic
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 01:52):
if you can make a CVD Risk Observation - I can push it back now into BP...
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 01:54):
Do you have any particular expected structure for the Observation?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 02:00):
Brian Postlethwaite said:
What are you all hoping to achieve at this connectathon?
Who's planning to try to create what?
I’ll be testing one or two SMART apps.
I’m also very interested in following what’s being tested. I’ve volunteered to host the International Patient Access track on the international January Connectathon, and want to get a feel of what makes sense to test and how it goes especially with SMART in this connectathon.
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 02:12):
@John Grimes https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/185bb1lEANogpuGkInu2GOtpEyy9cebdJR5va8xt_j4E/edit#gid=0
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 02:12):
open and SMART endpoints
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 02:15):
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 02:17):
I reckon just use 827181004 for now
Peter Jordan (Nov 23 2021 at 02:32):
Breakout session on NZULM/NZMT about to start
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 02:36):
CVD crew BRB
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 02:49):
have you got a public CVD app url + redirect? even placeholder?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 02:51):
@Brett Esler I'd like to test the authenticated SMART launch. My app's launch URL is https://dev.sensotrend.fi/api/smart and the redirect URI: https://dev.sensotrend.fi/api/authenticate/smart. Do you need more info? PM me the client id and secret if required?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 02:51):
Not a CVD app, only testing the launch.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 02:54):
@Jim Steel, @Deanne Ukovich too, and @Brian Postlethwaite
I'd like to test the authenticated SMART launch. My app's launch URL is https://dev.sensotrend.fi/api/smart and the redirect URI: https://dev.sensotrend.fi/api/authenticate/smart. Do you need more info? PM me the client id and secret if required?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 02:55):
(Going to sleep now, will configure and test in the morning my time) :sleeping:
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 02:55):
Do you already have a client_id configured?
if not can you set it to sensotrend?
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 02:56):
I might leave that one to @Deanne Ukovich
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 02:57):
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 03:01):
Sensotrend same for me @Mikael Rinnetmäki
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 03:27):
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HRESULT: 0x80131040)
[INFORMATION] at HealthConnex.Fhir.Models.LocationModel.AfterSaveComplete(fhirstore store, LocationResource header, Location location, Int64 internal_id)
at HealthConnex.Fhir.Models.ModelBase6.Create(Resource resource, String ifMatch, String ifNoneExist, Nullable1 ifModifiedSince)
at sqlonfhir.Controllers.StandardResourceController.ProcessBatchEntry(Bundle outcome, String buri, Dictionary2 mappedResourceIds, EntryComponent entry) in C:\agentSU3\_work\5\s\sqlonfhir\Controllers\StandardResourceController.cs:line 184
at sqlonfhir.Controllers.StandardResourceController.ProcessBatch(Bundle batch) in C:\agentSU3\_work\5\s\sqlonfhir\Controllers\StandardResourceController.cs:line 163
at lambda_method(Closure , Object , Object[] )
at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ReflectedHttpActionDescriptor.ActionExecutor.<>c__DisplayClass10.<GetExecutor>b__9(Object instance, Object[] methodParameters)
at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ReflectedHttpActionDescriptor.ActionExecutor.Execute(Object instance, Object[] arguments)
at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ReflectedHttpActionDescriptor.ExecuteAsync(HttpControllerContext controllerContext, IDictionary2 arguments, CancellationToken cancellationToken)
--- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown ---
at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.ThrowForNonSuccess(Task task)
at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.HandleNonSuccessAndDebuggerNotification(Task task)
at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ApiControllerActionInvoker.<InvokeActionAsyncCore>d__0.MoveNext()
--- End of stack trace from previous location where exception was thrown ---
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at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.HandleNonSuccessAndDebuggerNotification(Task task)
at System.Web.Http.Filters.ActionFilterAttribute.<CallOnActionExecutedAsync>d__5.MoveNext()
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at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ActionFilterResult.<ExecuteAsync>d__2.MoveNext()
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at System.Runtime.CompilerServices.TaskAwaiter.HandleNonSuccessAndDebuggerNotification(Task task)
at System.Web.Http.Controllers.ExceptionFilterResult.<ExecuteAsync>d__0.MoveNext(). at Hl7.Fhir.Rest.TaskExtensions.WaitResultT in D:\Oridashi\Repositories\HiasobiR4\HiasobiTrusted\OridashiAdapterR4\Servi
ceModule.cs:line 782
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 03:37):
CVD Risk client = 47059543-3654-466b-9c71-495957306af0
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 03:39):
https://localhost:3000?iss=https://www.demo.oridashi.com.au:8102&launch=whateverulike
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 03:58):
this.scope = "launch patient/*.read";
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 04:16):
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 04:31):
https://confluence.hl7australia.com/display/AFR/SMART+Launch+CVDRisk+Calculator+Playzone has an example CVD Risk output Obs now
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 05:00):
Do we want components?
Ronald Dendere (Nov 23 2021 at 05:00):
@Brian Postlethwaite, I am trying to play with the SMART on FHIR demo implementation: https://github.com/brianpos/smart-on-fhir/tree/feature/au-token - of the four necessary components, I dont have an EHR Desktop application. Any suggestions on which one I can use?
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 05:01):
Main thing you need to have is a test NASH digital certificate from Medicare, do you have one of these?
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 05:02):
That project is a dummy test EHR application.
Ronald Dendere (Nov 23 2021 at 05:05):
Brian Postlethwaite said:
That project is a dummy test EHR application.
I do not
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 05:10):
Do you have any digital certificate with private keys?
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 05:13):
@Jim Steel Did David have a spreadsheet he found with the CVD Risk algorithm?
Can he share this with Brett, Brian and myself?
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 05:13):
@Jim Steel what do you mean by components?
Jim Steel (Nov 23 2021 at 05:14):
An observation can have components within it, in addition to the overall observation value
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 05:14):
Never mind, Ok with what I have in the javascript.
David Conlan (Nov 23 2021 at 05:19):
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:22):
Brian Postlethwaite said:
Do you already have a client_id configured?
if not can you set it to sensotrend?
No, I hadn't configured the client id. The process I'm most familiar with is that I as an app developer tell the launch URL and the redirect URL, and the host / server then tells me the client id and possibly a client secret I need to use.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:33):
I now configured the app id sensotrend for servers https://launch.smarthealthit.org/v/r4/fhir, https://uat.csiro.au/cblDemo/fhirServer/fhir, https://sqlonfhir-r4.azurewebsites.net/fhir, https://www.demo.oridashi.com.au:8102/, and https://dc4h-apim.developer.azure-api.net.
If that helps @Brian Postlethwaite @Deanne Ukovich @Brett Esler @Chris Royle @Marcus Shirrefs
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:41):
And now also the server https://fhir.test.localhost that I saw you used @Brian Postlethwaite
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 07:42):
Hmm, that's an interesting issue.
For cloud apps, that's maintainable, however, an on prem solution might have 15k systems to talk to.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:42):
I haven't implemented any dynamic client registration stuff, by the way. Not sure if any of the servers are expecting that.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:44):
Brian Postlethwaite said:
Hmm, that's an interesting issue.
For cloud apps, that's maintainable, however, an on prem solution might have 15k systems to talk to.
What do you mean? The client registration, a client needing to have a separate id for each of the servers launching it?
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 07:45):
You could have a common one across many?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:46):
I could. But as explained, usually the host issues the id. That kind of guarantees it's always unique per host.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 07:46):
As a vendor I might have a client id for all my instances, but they are all at different endpoints.
We should check what the mgmt story expectation here is.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 07:47):
(which is probably how I'd expect it to be) few products, but many deployments.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 07:48):
@Josh Mandel any thoughts on this, or is that dynamic reg?
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:50):
@Brian Postlethwaite happy to jump in a call to discuss this, to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 23 2021 at 07:50):
I'm on the event Zoom now.
Josh Mandel (Nov 23 2021 at 14:44):
Reading back in the thread. I'm not sure exactly what the question was for me. You all might want to use topics more liberally :smile:
In general, a client needs to be registered with each separate server or talks too. It's of course possible for fhir servers to group together and manage client instances as a group (e.g., all Epic customers or all Cerner customers) and it is certainly possible for clients to register using dynamic registration when servers support this (even possible to layer on a trust framework so that a given client developer is allowed to register its trusted clients even without opening up for dynamic registration of arbitrary clients).
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 23 2021 at 20:37):
Yup, that's precisely the question and answer.
I'll have to read into the dynamic registration sruff.
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 22:43):
<coding>
<system value="http://www.whocc.no/atc" />
<code value="C10AA" />
<display value="Atorvastatin" />
</coding>
lipid lowering example
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 22:47):
C10 - lipid lower
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 22:47):
C02 - antihypertensive
Brett Esler (Nov 23 2021 at 22:49):
B01 - antithrombotic
Deanne Ukovich (Nov 23 2021 at 22:52):
@Mikael Rinnetmäki I'm trying to launch your smart app to test the configuration on the csiro server. It now gets past authorize but then gives me an error message image.png
Michael Lawley (Nov 23 2021 at 22:57):
So @Brian Postlethwaite can I register a client with you with a specific client_id?
Michael Lawley (Nov 23 2021 at 23:02):
ah, seems I don't need to register -- https://ontoserver.csiro.au/ui/launch?iss=https://sqlonfhir-r4.azurewebsites.net/fhir works and can even launch Shrimp!
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 23:13):
%PrePopQuery.entry[21].resource.entry.resource.code.coding.where(system='http://snomed.info/sct' and code='44054006').exists()
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 23:15):
"answerOption": [ { "valueCoding": { "code": "1", "display": "Aboriginal but not Torres Strait Islander origin", "system": "https://healthterminologies.gov.au/fhir/CodeSystem/australian-indigenous-status-1" }},
{ "valueCoding": { "code": "2", "display": "Torres Strait Islander but not Aboriginal origin", "system": "https://healthterminologies.gov.au/fhir/CodeSystem/australian-indigenous-status-1" }},
{ "valueCoding": { "code": "3", "display": "Both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander origin", "system": "https://healthterminologies.gov.au/fhir/CodeSystem/australian-indigenous-status-1" }},
{ "valueCoding": { "code": "4", "display": "Neither Aboriginal nor Torres Strait Islander origin", "system": "https://healthterminologies.gov.au/fhir/CodeSystem/australian-indigenous-status-1" }},
{ "valueCoding": { "code": "9", "display": "Not stated/inadequately described", "system": "https://healthterminologies.gov.au/fhir/CodeSystem/australian-indigenous-status-1" }}]
Heath Frankel (Nov 23 2021 at 23:45):
entry[19].resource.entry.resource.contained[0].code.coding.where(system='http://www.whocc.no/atc' and code='C02AC').exists()
Heath Frankel (Nov 24 2021 at 01:44):
Ronald Dendere (Nov 24 2021 at 02:00):
@Brett Esler how far along have you gone with the interRAI for RE open source renderer + content to show pre-population
John Grimes (Nov 24 2021 at 02:36):
@Brett Esler these are the scopes i'm requesting: "launch patient/*.read patient/Observation.write offline_access openid fhirUser"
Heath Frankel (Nov 24 2021 at 02:38):
is this the SNOMED code for CVD risk you are using, 827181004?
Michael Lawley (Nov 24 2021 at 03:05):
Does anyone have insight or a position on FHIR Endpoints requiring additional HTTP headers or similar "API Key" elements in requests and support for them with SMART Apps?
Jim Steel (Nov 24 2021 at 03:05):
@Brett Esler I now have a SMART app at https://qro7y.sse.codesandbox.io/launch.html (app ID is ips-exporter that should pull a few resources out of a patient record and populate an IPS Composition/Bundle, that it sends off to Ontoserver for validation against the IPS IG. How do we go about pointing it at one of your endpoints?
Jim Steel (Nov 24 2021 at 03:08):
I'm equally interested in any other launch context FHIR server with AU/NZ data
Grahame Grieve (Nov 24 2021 at 03:23):
Does anyone have insight or a position on FHIR Endpoints requiring additional HTTP headers or similar "API Key" elements in requests and support for them with SMART Apps?
Sure. I do. What do you want to know?
Michael Lawley (Nov 24 2021 at 03:54):
Is it in-spec to require such things? If so, are there conventions / mechanisms to avoid needing to do server/vendor-specific things?
Brett Esler (Nov 24 2021 at 03:56):
@Jim Steel whst is your redirect?
Jim Steel (Nov 24 2021 at 03:58):
https://qro7y.sse.codesandbox.io/app
Jim Steel (Nov 24 2021 at 04:49):
@Brett Esler Did it work? I couldn't get it to launch properly from our CBL Launcher (no idea why - nightmare to debug)
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 24 2021 at 06:33):
I've posted some report out results here, those involved if they want to contribute an updated screenshot or whatever, please let me know.
https://confluence.hl7australia.com/display/AFR/FHIR+SMART+App+Launch+Results
(I didn't get to put all our organizational names into it - I should have)
@John Grimes @Brett Esler
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 24 2021 at 06:44):
Deanne Ukovich said:
Mikael Rinnetmäki I'm trying to launch your smart app to test the configuration on the csiro server. It now gets past authorize but then gives me an error message
Thanks @Deanne Ukovich! My code was attempting to fetch auth endpoints from the .well-known directory (a more modern way) and did not find them and was not cautious enough. :) Fixed. I think.
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Nov 24 2021 at 10:07):
Also reporting here that I got a request from https://dev.sensotrend.fi/api/smart?iss=https://localhost.oridashi.com.au:8102&launch=bd137f46-8450-4347-8a13-fd6e1cc7282f, which triggered me to look for the server metadata from https://localhost.oridashi.com.au:8102/metadata, but that server rejected the request.
Brian Postlethwaite (Nov 25 2021 at 22:51):
In fact, the publication of the v2 SMART app launch has just completed with the content that we were testing with.
https://hl7.org/fhir/smart-app-launch/STU2/
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Dec 22 2021 at 15:36):
Anyone attending the FHIR Connectathon in January? You're all warmly welcome to join the International Patient Access track, to test your implementations against hopefully many other clients and servers. https://confluence.hl7.org/display/FHIR/2022-01+International+Patient+Access
Mikael Rinnetmäki (Dec 22 2021 at 15:39):
Also, if there are any publicly available test servers, please let us know. We will advertise those to track participants testing their apps. We're interested in collecting experiences, even if the vendors or operators of the servers would not have the chance to participate on the Connectathon.
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
