Stream: australia
Topic: National Product Catalogue GTIN
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Jun 06 2017 at 06:00):
I want to record the GTIN (barcode) from the national product catalogue (NPC, managed by GS1) for the containered trade product product pack (AMT term) of a medication. It looks like the NPC GTIN for a pack of medication can be a code in a code system. I think that the code system is not yet defined. Where to record this in a FHIR resource?
'Medication.package' seems the best place.
'Medication.package.content[x]' is not suitable, as the GTIN identifies the package of medication, not the content of the package.
I think we need an extension.
Any comments?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Jun 07 2017 at 01:58):
Maybe the extension is based on Device.udi.
Danielle (Jun 07 2017 at 06:39):
Hi Richard, I think the EAN (NPC GS1) will need an extension. We are currently mapping the EAN from dispense and prescribe messages into the following code field- "Medication.code.coding(3).system value=http://erx.com.au/id/itembarcode"
This is probably not the best place but was the best fit we could find at the time for our purpose. Not sure if this helps.
Grahame Grieve (Jun 08 2017 at 23:06):
there should be a system for GTIN - I thought I already put it in the main spec
Grahame Grieve (Jun 08 2017 at 23:07):
but no. I'm going to suggest http://www.gtin.info/ as the system value
Grahame Grieve (Jun 08 2017 at 23:09):
Brett Esler (Jun 08 2017 at 23:47):
Is there only one version of GTIN in use in AU for medications? GTIN-13 ?
Brett Esler (Jun 08 2017 at 23:47):
do we need to indicate the version explicitly?
Grahame Grieve (Jun 09 2017 at 00:51):
I thought there was only one GTIN period. Isn't that the point?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Jun 20 2017 at 03:31):
GTINs come in a variety of lengths and representations. The Australian National Product Catalogue might have chosen a preferred length.
I suggest https://www.gs1.org/gtin as the URI for GTIN.
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Jun 20 2017 at 04:04):
There are GTINs similar to TPUUs (single tablets) and others similar to CTPPs (boxes of tablets). Fun! The CTPP ones are more common.
If GTINs are represented as codes, the product level GTIN can go in Medication.code, and an extension will be needed for the containered product, say Medication.package.code. With `Coding.system' = www.gs1.org/gtin.
If GTINs are treated the same way as UDIs in Device, the backbone element from device is adapted to GTIN and used twice in the extension as Medication.gtin and Medication.package.gtin.
Any thoughts?
Jose Costa Teixeira (Aug 02 2017 at 09:23):
Hi. There are several flavours of GTIN, yes (12 or 14 characters), but each GTIN is globally unique. -
Jose Costa Teixeira (Aug 02 2017 at 09:25):
My reading is that the different codes in codeableConcept.coding would be different codes for the same thing.
i.e. you would normally not put the code for substance (SCT) and package (GTIN) in the same medication, since they refer to different things.
Jose Costa Teixeira (Aug 02 2017 at 09:27):
So one medication would have only one code. And IMO "paracetamol 500 mg, NDC=123" and "Bayer paracetamol 500 mg, GTIN=234" are actualy two different medications. two different resource instances.
Jose Costa Teixeira (Aug 02 2017 at 09:27):
thus you can solve the problems of many glanularity levels, I think.
Igor Sirkovich (Aug 11 2017 at 15:44):
I'm wondering if there has been an agreement on the code system for GTIN: http://www.gs1.org/gtin or http://www.gtin.info
Andrew Patterson (Aug 13 2017 at 22:54):
I'm wondering if there has been an agreement on the code system for GTIN: http://www.gs1.org/gtin or http://www.gtin.info
I put a comment on the gforge tracker around this.. it 100% shouldn't be http://www.gtin.info.. the organisation that runs that have a very useful page about barcoding - and good on them for that - but they aren't actually the body responsible for gtins. So I don't think it should be used as a code system URI.
Igor Sirkovich (Aug 13 2017 at 23:07):
Thank you @Andrew Patterson . We will use http://www.gs1.org/gtin then. I see that this is also been used in the Australian Base Medication resource.
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Aug 14 2017 at 01:41):
I contacted GS1 in June for their advice on http://www.gs1.org/gtin, and they are looking into it, still.
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Sep 06 2017 at 00:47):
I've had an email from Catherine Koetz at GS1 saying that the best link for GTIN is https://www.gs1.org/gtin
Great!
What is the FHIR preference for HTTP vs HTTPS in URIs?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Sep 06 2017 at 01:14):
Does it matter whether we use http or https ?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 06 2017 at 07:48):
we prefer http:// actually
Brett Esler (Sep 06 2017 at 07:57):
Thanks for following up Richard - I would like http also
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Sep 06 2017 at 23:56):
Is the preference for http over https documented anywhere? If so, where?
I found "do not use both with different results", but no guidance that http would be preferred.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 07 2017 at 13:20):
I don't think we've written it down anywhere. It's not something we could say normatively
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Sep 08 2017 at 00:49):
How do I argue for http over https with Catherine Koetz at GS1?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Sep 08 2017 at 00:50):
Do I ask her why they prefer https?
Grahame Grieve (Sep 08 2017 at 02:51):
I expect it's copy/paste from the browser. We prefer http:// for permalinks because there's a real prospect that once http/2 is released, servers will simply do security inline without redirecting to https:
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Feb 08 2018 at 05:09):
@Grahame Grieve
I expect GTINs to be a CodeSystem identified by http://www.gs1.org/gtin (or https://www.gs1.org/gtin. I have been told that GS1 are fine with both.)
Is it a problem that the current FHIR identifier register (http://build.fhir.org/identifier-registry.html) has GTINs as identifiers?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Feb 08 2018 at 05:31):
On OIDs and GTINs:
The HL7 OID register has 1.3.160 for GTINs
But I have an email from GS1 saying that their info is registered at http://oid-info.com/get/2.51.1
and OID Info has an OID of 2.51.1.1 for GTINs
Is there a problem?
Grahame Grieve (Feb 08 2018 at 06:29):
it's certainly not a code system. it's an identifier system
Grahame Grieve (Feb 08 2018 at 06:30):
https://www.gs1.org/gtin is the correct namespace
Grahame Grieve (Feb 08 2018 at 06:30):
I don't know about the OID.
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Feb 09 2018 at 00:50):
I agree about GTINs being identifiers.
That will mean that recording GTINs for medications will require an extension of type Identifier to Medication as code is not suitable.
Grahame Grieve (Feb 09 2018 at 00:56):
you should ask about that on the implementers channel
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Feb 09 2018 at 01:49):
Michael Lawley (Feb 13 2018 at 01:41):
Hmm, I thought of GTINs as a NamingSystem
Brett Esler (Feb 13 2018 at 01:43):
trade item and products sounds like a classification to me...
Brett Esler (Feb 13 2018 at 01:47):
hey @Michael Lawley how does NamingSystem relate to identifiers/codes ?
Richard Townley-O'Neill (Feb 13 2018 at 05:33):
@Michael Lawley @Brett Esler see the thread https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/implementers/topic/Vaccine.20Catalogue.20.26.20GTIN.20in.20Medication.20Resource.3F
for more on this
Brett Esler (Feb 14 2018 at 04:37):
Thanks @Richard Townley-O'Neill
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
