FHIR Chat · ANZSCO · australia

Stream: australia

Topic: ANZSCO

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:53):

Looking at clean up for ANZSCO 1.2 "Key:
(A) -- alternative title
(N) -- occupation in nec category
(P) -- principal title
(S) -- specialisation"

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:54):

there are concepts listed under the codes

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:54):

One for the terminologists...

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:54):

P is like preferred

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:55):

A - synonym

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:55):

S - child is-a

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 02:55):

N ???

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 02:55):

terminologists don't like NEC

Grahame Grieve (Dec 08 2017 at 02:56):

no, but there's the real world to deal with

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 02:56):

is said that not as a terminologist

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 02:57):

i'm more pragmatic

Grahame Grieve (Dec 08 2017 at 03:00):

y.

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:01):

so N would be a child also then I guess...

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:02):

sorry brett, what is the source of the A,N,P,S key? (just looking at the abs excel and I can't see them)

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:03):

it is in the text description (A) (S) on all the names

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:03):

eg

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:03):

Chief Executive or Managing Director (P)
Chief Executive Officer (A)
Director-General (S)
Executive Director (S)
Secretary (Government Department) (Aus) (S)
Corporate General Manager (P)
Kaiwhakahaere (NZ) (S)

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:04):

in the PDF?

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:04):

in XLS 12200 ANZSCO Version 1.2 Index of Principal Titles, Alternative Titles and Specialisations v3.xls

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:06):

so australian
121399 Crocodile Farmer (Aus) (N)

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:06):

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/1220.0

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:06):

indeed!

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:07):

bob katter won't be happy.. to many crocs according to him

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:07):

I think you'd have to throw the N's out

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:08):

unless you want to introduce a new child code
121399.1 crocodile farmer
121399.2 emu farmer

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:08):

but you can 't have
121399 livestock farmers nec
121399 crocodile farmer
121399 emu farmer

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:09):

there was meant to be an indent to the left of those last two

Andrew Patterson (Dec 08 2017 at 03:09):

i.e you can't have children that have the same code as their parent.. I don't think that fits into any terminology world

Grahame Grieve (Dec 08 2017 at 03:10):

we were going to the do the .n yes

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:11):

think the HI service does this already... looking for the reference; just the healthcare bits..

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 03:22):

It is as if the Ns were specialisations of the NEC.

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 03:23):

Look at the 111312s
111312 Chief Minister (Aus) (S)
111312 Government Minister (S)
111312 Member of Parliament (P)
111312 Member of the Legislative Assembly (Aus) (S)
111312 Member of the Legislative Council (Aus) (S)
111312 Parliamentarian (A)
111312 Premier (Aus) (S)
111312 Prime Minister (S)
111312 Senator (Aus) (S)

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:32):

Read that like:
Member of Parliament (P), alias - Parliamentarian (A)
child - Chief Minister (Aus) (S)
child - Government Minister (S)
child - Member of the Legislative Assembly (Aus) (S)
child - Member of the Legislative Council (Aus) (S)
child - Premier (Aus) (S)
child - Prime Minister (S)
child - Senator (Aus) (S)

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:37):

looking at what to do in FHIR CodeSystem
could add that number to specialisations as folows and create sub concept

111312 Member of Parliament (P)
1113121 Chief Minister (Aus) (S)
1113122 Government Minister (S)

do synonyms belong as designations e.g
<designation>
<use>
<system value="http://snomed.info/sct"/>
<code value="900000000000013009"/>
<display value="Synonym"/>
</use>
<value value="Parliamentarian"/>
</designation>

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 03:53):

maybe...

  <concept>
  <code value="111312"/>
  <display value="Member of Parliament"/>
  <definition value="Member of Parliament"/>
  <designation>
    <use>
      <system value="http://snomed.info/sct"/>
      <code value="900000000000013009"/>
      <display value="Synonym"/>
    </use>
    <value value="Parliamentarian"/>
  </designation>
  <concept>
    <code value="11131211"/>
    <display value="Chief Minister (Aus)"/>
    <definition value="Chief Minister (Aus)"/>
  </concept>
  <concept>
    <code value="11131212"/>
    <display value="Government Minister"/>
    <definition value="Government Minister"/>
  </concept>
  ...
</concept>

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 04:05):

is that what designation is for?

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 04:41):

Your use of designation looks OK to me.

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 04:43):

I'm concerned about us adding extra values to an ABS code system.
I think that it would have to be an HL7 Australia code system inspired by the ABS one.

Grahame Grieve (Dec 08 2017 at 04:44):

(deleted)

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 04:48):

There does not seem to be any place to put specialisations (subsumed concepts).
Maybe we need to create an HL7 Australia code system that just contains the specialisations and maps them as specialisations to the relevant ANZSCO code.
And then create a value set that uses the union of the ANZSCO and our new set.

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 08 2017 at 04:49):

Then ANZSCO can create new codes without invalidating ours.

Brett Esler (Dec 08 2017 at 13:00):

the child concept elements are the specialisations .e.g Chief Minister (Aus) is specialisation of Member of Parliament as above

Brett Esler (Dec 09 2017 at 08:26):

recreated the ANZSCO CodeSystem to look at... used '.' separator and position count for the (S)+(N) specialisations - alphabetical order
http://build.fhir.org/ig/hl7au/au-fhir-base/CodeSystem-codesystem-anzsco.html - all the text comes from ANZSCO spreadsheet...

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 11 2017 at 00:24):

Found a type "Mammalogist" is spelled as "Mamma logist"
:grinning:

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 11 2017 at 00:53):

I think that we can use these codes, but we cannot claim the level 2 ones as members of the ABS code system. The codes are not part of the code system published by the ABS at ANZSCO page or ANZSCO spreadsheet

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 11 2017 at 00:55):

We will have to create our own code system with the level 2 codes and create a value set that combines the two.

Richard Townley-O'Neill (Dec 11 2017 at 00:55):

We should ask the ABS about this too.

Brian Postlethwaite (Dec 11 2017 at 02:31):

And attribute copyright I hope (perhaps ask if this content is correct for us to publish)

Brett Esler (Dec 11 2017 at 02:32):

content is free to use... checked licensing; think this is more about creating codes that aren't defined in the original source...

Brian Postlethwaite (Dec 11 2017 at 02:32):

Would be good for them to know about it too. And yes agree on that check too.

Michael Lawley (Dec 12 2017 at 02:58):

that's because it's a classification :)

Michael Lawley (Dec 12 2017 at 03:04):

How is Livestock Farmers any different, really, than Livestock Farmers nec?
As soon as the list is updated with 121322 Emu Farmer, all prior uses of 121399 Livestock Farmers nec are suspect.

Terminologists dislike NEC because it breaks concept permanence

Grahame Grieve (Dec 12 2017 at 13:15):

so do sub sets... life is complicated....

Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC