Stream: implementers
Topic: icpc term
Jens Villadsen (Oct 27 2021 at 15:22):
@Ted Klein
1) none of the +5 mentioned ICPC codesystems defined in UTG (https://terminology.hl7.org/codesystems.html) have any content (meaning: any codes listed).
2) Shouldn't at least the country specific codesystems (eg. https://terminology.hl7.org/CodeSystem-icpc-DAN.html) be listed as supplement codesystems to the base codesystem?
3) If I were to supply the danish codesystem suppplement with the actual danish designations, it would not be 100% efficient until the base codesystem has its codes filled out.
-or am I missing something here?
Jens Villadsen (Oct 27 2021 at 15:25):
(I'm working on adding the code system with danish designations @ https://github.com/hl7dk/dk-core/blob/feature/icpc-supplement/input/resources/icpc2e-dk.xml)
Ted Klein (Oct 27 2021 at 15:39):
@Jens Villadsen I'll try to answer:
Ted Klein (Oct 27 2021 at 15:40):
- As per HTA approved and TSC endorsed policy, NO code system published by an organization outside of HL7 will have codes published in THO UNLESS an explicit agreement to do so, and a process for maintaining current accurate content in the face of external updates is defined and documented;
Ted Klein (Oct 27 2021 at 15:45):
- All of those external code system metadata records you see that are in the category of "Other" (meaning not curated by HTA) are subject to imminent removal. This is as per an email that went out to all cochairs (I think probably not to the IC reps which was probably an oversight, please contact @Reuben Daniels about it). These were all imported and their fields assigned pro forma by the import algorithm from material published in the V3 coremif release December 2019. In almost 2 years no one has cleaned them up, so HTA sent a request for any that people wish to remain in THO be identified and cleaned up, all others will be removed next month. I am pretty sure all of those ICPC variants are among that pile. Note also that the way the variants are represented in FHIR differs from V3, which did not support the concept of code system supplements. Hence what you are seeing is the pro forma representation of the v3 model there. If you feel these should be part of the THO publication, please notify HTA to this effect, and please take on the task of fixing them.
Ted Klein (Oct 27 2021 at 15:46):
- See 1 and 2 above. Any code system that is not authored and maintained by HL7 through the UTG process must come through HTA, and content can only be put in there as per agreement, again through HTA. @Carol Macumber and @Reuben Daniels are the ones to contact about this.
Jens Villadsen (Oct 27 2021 at 17:26):
@Ted Klein - thx for the explanation
Jens Villadsen (Oct 27 2021 at 17:26):
Ill reach out to HTA on https://confluence.hl7.org/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=6001782#content/view/14746083
Jens Villadsen (Oct 27 2021 at 19:33):
@Carol Macumber / @Reuben Daniels have you considered sending out the information the affiliates? Most of the work conducted in my country is done within the affiliate, not in the WG's. I'm aware that this might be an exception to how HL7 is organized but I encourage you to also dispatch such information to the affiliates.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:35):
@Carol Macumber / @Reuben Daniels I see that ICPC was on the agenda (https://confluence.hl7.org/display/TA/Teleconference+2022-02-10) have you come to a conclusion? I has been a couple of months now and looking at https://terminology.hl7.org/codesystems.html I still see a lot of what could look like deprecated/unused systems
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 21:50):
@Ted Klein I have recieved permission from the caretakers of the danish ICPC to publish it. Should I forward that to THO?
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 22:00):
I'm not sure that THO is the best place to publish. fhir.tx.support is also possible - what exactly is the permission?
Carol Macumber (Feb 14 2022 at 22:01):
@Roel Barelds has taken up this item for HTA. , Roel, can you provide a status.
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:07):
@Grahame Grieve the abbreviated version is here: https://github.com/hl7dk/dk-core/issues/11 - I'm sure I can get @Michael Johansen to add some more details
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:12):
and @Grahame Grieve if you don't mind having all kinds of different languages ending up in fhir.tx.support then sure
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 22:14):
sure I don't mind - that's what it's for. Maybe better than THO since it has much lighter governance. but given that the permission is for Danish use, perhaps it would be better in the danish IG. Is it too big?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:17):
not at all - its around 1200 elements if I recall
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:18):
The reason for taking this to THO is that it already contains stuff like https://terminology.hl7.org/CodeSystem-icpc-DAN.html
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:19):
its empty though (and the previous deprecated version) - for reason unknown to me
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 22:20):
well, that can't be the right URL. In fact, it's wrong: it can't claim to be the authoritative source and then not include content at all. I'll raise that on the terminology stream. So I'd make a THO task to remove that, and then add it to the dk base IG
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:21):
They have more of those - like https://terminology.hl7.org/CodeSystem-icpc-GER.html
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:22):
in fact ... I think all the ICPC codesystems are more or less empty regardless of version
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:24):
(and yes ... I'll just add it to the danish core IG for now)
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:26):
But @Grahame Grieve - as I see it, the danish ICPC is technically a supplement. It 'only' contains translations in regards to the origin
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:26):
So I need to refer to the origin
Grahame Grieve (Feb 14 2022 at 22:28):
what's the origin? Is it really only translations? because elsewhere I've seen more changes than just that
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:33):
The origin of ICPC is found here: https://www.ehelse.no/kodeverk/icpc-2e--english-version
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:34):
(im a bit surprised there are 'multiple' second editions ... :thinking: )
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:34):
or versioned second editions ...
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:34):
The danish translation contains 684 codes
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:35):
and the latest ICPC-2e-v.7.0 20 february 2018 contains 686 codes as far as I can count
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:35):
so yeah ... its probably only translations
Jens Villadsen (Feb 14 2022 at 22:36):
Im not aware of any extra codes added in DK
Michael Johansen (Feb 15 2022 at 20:42):
I am not aware of differences between Danish and WONCA ICPC-2e other than translation english to danish. If the number of codes dont add up, it could possibly be the case, that a small add/not-use has taken place back in 2008. I can find out if you like. Lots of the versions of ICPC-2e is, as far as i can see, changes in the mapping to ICD10, and not changes to the ICPC-2e codes themself.
Grahame Grieve (Feb 15 2022 at 20:50):
ok. so we could publish Danish ICPC as a supplement to the base ICPC, but we don't have permission to publish the base ICPC?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 15 2022 at 20:55):
I requested permission through the danish org MedCom to get permission to use and publish the danish translations of ICPC
Jens Villadsen (Feb 15 2022 at 20:56):
Since they were already listed on THO I assumed someone else already had requested permission for the english ones
Jens Villadsen (Feb 15 2022 at 20:57):
So I cant answer your question in regards to the base ICPC
Grahame Grieve (Feb 15 2022 at 20:58):
we have permission to say they exist, not to include the content. I won't be able to do anything with a supplement without the content
Jens Villadsen (Feb 18 2022 at 20:32):
?
Jens Villadsen (Feb 18 2022 at 20:33):
(content is here https://github.com/hl7dk/dk-core/blob/feature/icpc-supplement/input/resources/icpc2e-dk.xml)
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
