Stream: implementers
Topic: FHIR Tax Id Numbers for Organizations
Ashley Raiteri (Feb 07 2022 at 14:55):
Very Much a Noob:
We are wanting to eliminate a redundant step of storing data about our participating providers / organizations in our PostgresDB and keep it only in our FHIR store.
What coding systems or formats are correct for representing an org with a Tax ID. Specifically we want to be able to get this data back out when submitting claims on behalf of providers and practitioners.
Shamil Nizamov (Feb 07 2022 at 15:06):
You may check Carin BB IG for NPI, Tax ID, Payer ID and NAIC Code identifiers.
Specifically for the Tax ID, it's an OID - 2.16.840.1.113883.4.4
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 07 2022 at 15:42):
Carin should not have defined an identifier system for anything. That's a role for terminology.hl7.org, not for individual IGs. (And using OIDs for identifier systems is strongly discouraged.) If you need a URL for an international or U.S. national identifier, that should be submitted as a Zulip issue and the results will be published on terminology.hl7.org.
Ashley Raiteri (Feb 07 2022 at 16:53):
I am not sure I understand this response, I did find the records identified in CARIN but wasn't sure if we should adopt that profile just for the purpose of getting a standardized Tax ID value.
As mentioned I'm a serious Noob, so Maybe we can provide 2 ids on an organization still using US Core profile?
I think this is all we need along with NPI,
http://hl7.org/fhir/R4/v2/0203/index.html#v2-0203-TAX
My question is really around how to build the Org resource with that data?
Should we use 2 identifiers, has anyone seen good examples of how to create Org, that includes both NPI and TAX data on the org?
Shamil Nizamov (Feb 07 2022 at 17:22):
HL7v2 0203 - is for the identifier type, i.e., a description of the identifier. What you are asking for is the namespace for the identifier value.
Shamil Nizamov (Feb 07 2022 at 17:35):
...that should be submitted as a Zulip issue and the results will be published on terminology.hl7.org.
Done. FHIR-35970
Michele Mottini (Feb 07 2022 at 18:00):
Yes, use two identifiers. You do not to create resources conformant to a different profile just to use the identifier system URI.
The system URI for NPI is http://hl7.org/fhir/sid/us-npi and the one for tax id is urn:oid:2.16.840.1.113883.4.4
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 07 2022 at 18:23):
Where is the tax id one registered?
Brendan Keeler (Feb 07 2022 at 18:29):
Some previous comments here https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/179166-implementers/topic/.E2.9C.94.20Identifier.20System
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 07 2022 at 18:42):
The fact it shows up in an IG doesn't mean it's registered. IGs don't have the authority to determine identifier systems except for identifier systems they themselves define. There's too much risk of different IGs defining different systems. There's also policy and process that needs to be followed in defining what the Identifier.system value should be - and IG authors don't have the knowledge/authority to exercise those processes.
Lee Surprenant (Feb 07 2022 at 20:51):
FWIW there's also some old related conversation at https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/179190-united-states/topic/identifier.20system.20for.20TAX.20identifiers/near/191149380
Joel Schneider (Feb 15 2022 at 03:24):
This confluence page describes the HTA process for assigning CodeSystem identifiers for external code systems.
https://confluence.hl7.org/display/TA/Validating+and+Requesting+Code+System+Identifiers+for+an+External+Code+System
The process also be more-or-less applicable to external identifier systems (although the page doesn't specifically mention them).
Ashley Raiteri (Mar 07 2022 at 16:57):
Ok, I'm going to ask the question again in a way that make it clearer how basic my question is:
Attached is a snippet of sample json for a Claim Resource in a bundle representing an immunization.
"resource": {
"resourceType": "Claim",
"id": "100152",
"text": {
"status": "generated",
"div": "\u003cdiv xmlns\u003d\"[http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml](http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml)\"\u003eA human-readable rendering of the Oral Health Claim\u003c/div\u003e"
},
"identifier": [
{
"system": "[http://happyvalley.com/claim](http://happyvalley.com/claim)",
"value": "12345"
}
],
"status": "active",
"type": {
"coding": [
{
"system": "[http://terminology.hl7.org/CodeSystem/claim-type](http://terminology.hl7.org/CodeSystem/claim-type)",
"code": "oral"
}
]
},
"use": "claim",
"patient": {
"reference": "urn:uuid:20c16a58-4c7f-406e-a70d-59f8ae26108d"
},
"created": "2014-08-16",
"insurer": {
"reference": "Organization/2"
},
"provider": {
"reference": "Organization/1"
},
"priority": {
"coding": [
{
"code": "normal"
}
]
},
"payee": {
"type": {
"coding": [
{
"code": "provider"
}
]
}
},
Where should I build out the Organization Definition?
And how do I ensure that TaxID and NPI are provided for that Org in this structure?
I am very grateful in advance for any references, and more than willing to Read The Flipping Manual if someone can point me to the right pages?
Ashley Raiteri (Mar 07 2022 at 16:58):
I want to fill out the Provider Org data for this bundle.
David Pyke (Mar 07 2022 at 17:01):
The provider organization data would go in a US Core Organization resource with the NPI and Tax ID in the identifier elements. That would be linked into the Claim .provider element
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
