Stream: implementers
Topic: Authoring Tools
Peter Bomberg (May 17 2018 at 12:41):
I know this might sound strange but is there any user friendly (end user that is so not Notepad++ based) authoring tool for the actual FHIR Resources? In our use case the public (or close to) has to be able to create and submit a bundle, but the content will be human generated not system generated.
Josh Mandel (May 17 2018 at 12:53):
I don't think it's really what you're asking for, but http://docs.smarthealthit.org/fred is a nod in this direction (Open -> Blank -> Create). http://clinfhir.com also has capabilities like this.
(h/t @Dan Gottlieb @David Hay.)
Christiaan Knaap (May 17 2018 at 12:55):
You may also present it as a Questionnaire to the users and convert it to a bundle with discrete resources afterwards. @Brian Postlethwaite ?
Brian Postlethwaite (May 17 2018 at 12:59):
I have some plumbing parts that could assist with this, but haven't been assembled for doing this easily. Maybe I should do that in some spare time to make a smart resource via SD editor.
David Hay (May 17 2018 at 13:51):
yep - the scenario builder will do that (though the document management is primitive). Note this is intended as an educational/design tool not for a production system with real data in it...
Jose Costa Teixeira (May 17 2018 at 14:13):
FHIR toolkit allows editing a few types of resources
John Moehrke (May 17 2018 at 15:57):
see this wiki page
John Moehrke (May 17 2018 at 15:57):
http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=FHIR_Tools_Registry
Eric Haas (May 17 2018 at 16:34):
that request sounds like a full fledged UI. even clinfhir is too technical for the public and I love clinfhir...
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:34):
Thanks @Josh Mandel , you are right both of these can be used to create a resource by an end user but they are not at all what I am looking for, the average user in our case has no clue what elements and attributes are, much less which ones they need, a simple fallible form where the field type is tied to capabilities (Rich Text, versus pull down, etc) is what I am thinking, As soon as we ask the user to have subject matter expertise of the document we have lost them.
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:37):
Hello @Christiaan Knaap I dont see that as an option since that means I have to duplicate all elements into a questioner then map them in order to convert to the appropriate resource, in addition I would have to duplicate the profiles, unless there is a way to generate a questioner resource from a resource (such as the medicalProduct)?
Josh Mandel (May 18 2018 at 03:37):
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. If the idea is for your form fields to correspond 1:1 with FHIR resource elements though, it may be very hard to enable authors without domain experience. Our best understanding of this probably comes from the clinicians connectathon.
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:40):
Hello @Brian Postlethwaite , my belief is that for FHIR documents to be viable they need to be human generated (or largely so) system resources are a completely different issue but I cannot imagine a model where a complex narrative document at this time is created without a simple to use WYSIWYG type editor (MS Word, Adobe Forms, HTML Forms, you pick) so yes if you have the skeleton of an editor it might make sense
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:46):
Hello @David Hay the scenario builder is a tool aimed for people that have document subject matter expertise, not simply content expertise, the users don't understand resources, they simply want to enter marketing info into a form, or add marketing start date to a medicinalProduct, currently they open a word document and fill in the fields (they don't add fields, etc ...) so while I may like the tool (and I do) it's not what I am hoping to find
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:49):
Hello @John Moehrke I did before asking the question and since I could not find anything even close I thought I would ask
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:51):
@Eric Haas I second that, and please don't get me wrong there is a market for tools where the user knows the document structure (techies that is) but the general population (ie public or regulatory reviewers or sponsors) have very limited understanding of the structured content data model (and for good reasons).
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 03:53):
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. If the idea is for your form fields to correspond 1:1 with FHIR resource elements though, it may be very hard to enable authors without domain experience. Our best understanding of this probably comes from the clinicians connectathon.
I agree it may be complex but if companies can build SPL editors that in essence present a forms or schema validated option list to the users from a massively complex document structure than we should be able to do it from a simpler FHIR model
David Hay (May 18 2018 at 04:38):
Sounds like Questionnaire is the way to go. You'd want a UI to render the form from the questionnaire, then a way to indicate how the contents of the QuestiannaireResponse map to fields in the resources/s that are generated from the QR. (I thought there used to be a operation that id that, though I can't find it now...)
John Moehrke (May 18 2018 at 07:07):
It sounds like you are looking more for an application, than a tool for manipulating the specification, implementation guide authoring, or other technical tool that is our current effort. I agree with the need for an application that a clinician could use with their FHIR server full of clinical information, where the app helps that clincian define what they want to put into a FHIR Document.
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 12:44):
@John Moehrke Exactly so the question is does such an application exist?
Jose Costa Teixeira (May 18 2018 at 12:47):
What resource types do you want this for? Any specific resource?
Peter Bomberg (May 18 2018 at 13:06):
What resource types do you want this for? Any specific resource?
hello @Jose Costa Teixeira to be honest the first use case I am working on is either a Health Canada Structured Product Monograph (SPM) or • Certified Product Information Document (CPID), the SPM is a SPL based document
Jose Costa Teixeira (May 18 2018 at 13:08):
ok you chose a tough case to work on (or at least i cannot give an easy answer to that because I do have an opinion on how to transmit SPC or SPM in FHIR. There is a new resource popping up for that, so a GUI editor for that would be not easy since the resource is not ready...
Lloyd McKenzie (May 18 2018 at 13:11):
The best you're likely to find right now is some auto-generated Questionnaire instances driven by the profiles and tools that can render generic questionnaires. Until such time as the resources are locked down as normative, it's just too much work to try to create generic user interfaces - given that almost all FHIR implementations tend to have their own custom user interfaces aligned with their own internal data stores.
Dwight Walker (Jul 09 2021 at 09:40):
I would not knock out technical people. I am one. There is a need for technical detail. The authoring tool could have 2 levels, technical and basic. The editor could switch to the relevant option.
Lloyd McKenzie (Jul 09 2021 at 13:52):
What would you expect a 'technical option' to do?
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
