Stream: social
Topic: catching FHIR
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 11:15):
Does anyone have any stats/tendencies that show how much FHIR has caught on in comparison to the other standards out there in the past 5-10 years?
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 11:24):
@Grahame Grieve would you have anything that has meassured its success so far (besides the obvious one that there actually is a community and that it is growing)?
René Spronk (Sep 21 2021 at 11:31):
Using what measure? Data volume? Number of interfaces? This is very hard to pin down, given the lack of reliable sources, and the fact that usage of standards doesn't need a license (which is good thing, but it makes tracking a lot harder). @Jens Villadsen how about Danish stats ? Any clues or metrics ?
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 11:59):
one could imagine the big EHR vendors could somehow expose the statistics: v2, cda, xds, ncpdp, fax, paper, x12n, fhir, other..... and we could also hope for trend.
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 12:03):
I would tend to think that for Treatment, FHIR has little impact. But for new use-cases not fulfilled by previous standards, this is where FHIR shines the best. Not to say it won't overtake, but replacing something that works (even works badly) is harder than fulfilling a new use-case need.
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 13:04):
Number of implementations in Production is the key measure at this point. We can't really compare messages to resources to documents because they're not apples to apples.
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 13:08):
a connection that is used once a month should not be considered equal to an connection supporting thousands of patients. So I would say for Treatment use, counting the patients affected on a daily basis is an equalizer (not perfect)
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:43):
@John Moehrke Define treatment use
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:45):
@John Moehrke / @David Pyke - are you only involved in the US/CA market or are you also in Europe/Eurasia ?
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:46):
I am omnipresent
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:47):
How
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:47):
I've worked in North America, Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Still waiting on my invitation to work on a project in Oceania
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:49):
I too have worked on projects in much of world.
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:52):
Ok - what about the amount of web page hits on a given vendor's documentation site
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:53):
Surely that must at least determine relevance to some extent
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:53):
Or popularity
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:53):
Yes, to the extent that they can hire Search Engine Optimization experts to work on their pages
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:54):
And who would write documentation for something that isnt in production
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:54):
Everyone?
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:54):
I am fine if the data includes things beyond treatment, just think that treatment is more front-and-center and that treatment is something other healthcare standards have been used for ---- Treatment -- related to providing health care to a patient... Inclusive of payment/coverage, direct treatment, indirect treatment (lab, imaging, rx)..... BUT, not clinical research, big-data harvesting, machine-learning, not public health reporting, not Provider Directory, Not Practitioner management, Not inventory management, Not vocabulary management, Not configuration management, Not filesystem management, Not certificate management, Not blah blah blah.
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:57):
I dont find payment/coverage as being that much treatment related
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:59):
Because its paid through taxes - as in rest of Scandinavia if im not mistaken
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:59):
And most of the world. But we have to consider those countries that have for profit and mixed public-private insurances
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 17:59):
fine with me. I am not demanding anything. just trying to make it actionable
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 17:59):
Anyways ... If FHIR is a success - how do we determine that
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:00):
The most puns?
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:00):
where payment is not included... it won't be included on either the FHIR side or the non-FHIR side
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:00):
THere are far more FHIR Puns than CDA
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:00):
Lol
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:00):
that.... is not funny
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:01):
Ill definetly state that to the authorities
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:02):
John's solution of patients served on a daily basis is probably the best measure.
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:02):
But FHIR puns is a close second
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:02):
I accept that clarification... "patient served"... but then you are also including the cafeteria
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:03):
That's why HotBeverage was created
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:03):
In that case it would explain why FHIR is not a success in Scandinavia
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:03):
Yet
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:04):
cafeteria run off of spreasheet layout of the days of the weeks vs breafast/lunch/dinner... so I think that might win
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:06):
So given that metric (and given your experience ) where does that put FHIR in US and CA? In the bottom 10%?
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:08):
I don't have an exact metric but V2, V3 (yes, V3) are far ahead at this point in Canada. V2 is far, far ahead of FHIR in the US
Jens Villadsen (Sep 21 2021 at 18:10):
I would say proprietary takes up the 95% where I live
David Pyke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:11):
Wow, that's unexpected. I haven't seen any countries that don't use at least V2 with some CDA.
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:17):
USA - Direct Project (which is IHE-XDM ( CDA) -- mostly) -- https://directtrust.org/blog/news/directtrust-reports-upsurge-in-direct-exchange-transactions-during-the-second-quarter
Direct exchange transactions: There were more than 326 million Direct Secure Messages sent and received within the DirectTrust network during the second quarter of 2021. This is an increase of 130%, compared with the same period last year, and a nearly 90% increase over the first quarter of 2021. Direct exchange transactions since DirectTrust began tracking transactions in 2014 reached nearly 2.6 billion at the end of the second quarter; an average of more than 109 million transactions per month.
DirectTrust patient/consumer use: The number of patients/consumers using Direct Secure Messaging increased more than 19% to more than 660,000, compared with the same period a year ago.
DirectTrust trusted addresses: The number of trusted Direct addresses able to share PHI grew more than 11% to more than 2.7 million, compared with the same time last year.
DirectTrust organizations served: The number of healthcare organizations served by DirectTrust health information service providers (HISPs) and engaged in Direct Secure Messaging increased nearly 7% to more than 268,000, compared with the same time last year.
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:25):
USA - bridge between Care Quality and the eHealth Exchange - 28-30 million transactions a day processed by the hub.... about 800M inbound to eHx requests per month, about 1.3M outbound from eHx requests. -- IHE-XCA (C-CDA mostly).
- not counting transactions within Care Quality, and not counting the transactions within eHealth Exchange.
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:34):
I can't find the statistics for the other nationwide network -- CommonWell. I suspect it is similar
John Moehrke (Sep 21 2021 at 18:36):
SureScripts - NCPDP - Surescripts processed 17.7 billion transactions in 2018, a jump of 29% from 2017.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 22 2021 at 01:39):
I am omnipresent
@David Pyke I am disappointed you didn't also claim omniscient as well, since those go together
David Pyke (Sep 22 2021 at 01:42):
I'm very modest.
Grahame Grieve (Sep 22 2021 at 04:12):
I suppose you knew I'd make the claim on your behlf
Jens Villadsen (Sep 22 2021 at 09:15):
David Pyke said:
Wow, that's unexpected. I haven't seen any countries that don't use at least V2 with some CDA.
It is used - it just aint used that much in comparsion with all the other stuff
John Moehrke (Sep 22 2021 at 15:48):
just saw this stated by FEHRM , not sure the scope: "5-6 million C-CDA documents are exchanged daily to support of patient care"
Jens Villadsen (Sep 23 2021 at 11:16):
how often does a US citizen open an app that somewhere in the chain exchanges information over FHIR?
Jens Villadsen (Sep 23 2021 at 11:17):
and - how often does a US citizen open an app that somewhere in the chain exchanges information over something that aint over any HL7 protocol/information model?
Martijn Verhoeven (Oct 05 2021 at 10:04):
Big news! Open HealthHub is launching a truly unique addition to FHIR. And with it, a World premiere! :fire::fire::fire:
Live on YouTube from our HQ in #Utrecht on 7 October at 14:00 CET:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wu5JBn56Y&feature=youtu.be
Brendan Keeler (Oct 06 2021 at 20:33):
@Jens Villadsen Denmark uses Medcom, which is a government sanctioned standard, no?
Jens Villadsen (Oct 06 2021 at 21:06):
@Brendan Keeler yes and no - MedCom is an organization, not a standard. They primarily maintain the set of standards that are used when exchanging info across GP's and hospitals. There is a lot of exchange that they do not cover.
Martijn Verhoeven (Oct 07 2021 at 11:56):
Live: the launch of the world’s first publicly available end-to-end encryption FHIR APIs 🔥🔥🔥.
Watch our live premiere on YouTube in a few minutes time (7 October, 14:00 CET). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wu5JBn56Y&feature=youtu.be :fire::fire::fire:
We welcome all developers to try our APIs at: https://developer.openhealthhub.com. We looking forward to have your feedback!
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
