Stream: social
Topic: Newbie
Chandrakant Bhoslay (May 28 2021 at 17:57):
Is HL7 CDA good to start fresh coder to understand? Or he/she should start with simple solution architect only?
John Moehrke (May 28 2021 at 18:00):
would recommend FHIR for a Newbie. FHIR is new, but it is far more easy to understand. Thus the learning is more about healthcare concepts. Starting with CDA you would spend much time first understanding the modeling methodology.
Corey Spears (May 28 2021 at 18:42):
In general (green field), learning and starting to use CDA is going to be a significantly heavier lift for a newbie than FHIR.
radon (Jun 17 2021 at 19:47):
Is there a way with which I can convert my tabular data(Mysql,csv or text) into FHIR format using python?
John Moehrke (Jun 17 2021 at 19:54):
ask on #python stream
Mohd Uzair Shaikh (Nov 22 2021 at 18:28):
Hello new to this community, was setting up the reference app and getting the following error pls help
warning: default scripting plugin is disabled: The provided plugin org.jetbrains.kotlin.scripting.compiler.plugin.ScriptingCompilerConfigurationComponentRegistrar is not compatible with this version of compiler
error: unable to evaluate script, no scripting plugin loaded
Grahame Grieve (Nov 22 2021 at 18:45):
what's the reference app?
James Vodnansky (Nov 30 2021 at 13:12):
Good morning. I am a veteran using Apple Health to access my VA Health Records using the FHIR API. It has worked pretty well in the past, but recently I am all of my data is listed as "Unreadable Data". Specifically that there is "No Date". I reached out to some folks in the FHIR community, but was referred here to ask for another stream to post my issue in. Help please, I'm a hardware guy, not a code guy :-) image004.jpg image005.jpg image006.jpg image007.jpg
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 13:20):
The VA has a support channel for the FHIR API (Lighthouse API) -- https://developer.va.gov/support
Not clear that this is consumer friendly, seems more targeted at developers (in your case Apple).
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 13:25):
This might be the way a veteran gets help with apps? https://mobile.va.gov/app/va-health-chat
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 13:34):
found this Veteran focused FAQ -- https://www.va.gov/resources/connected-apps-faqs/
Which makes it clear you need to go through Apple. Which seems logical to me, as it is at that side they can see the broader picture that can't be seen at the VHA fhir api level.
I am not an apple expert, so no idea how you approach Apple for help.
James Vodnansky (Nov 30 2021 at 13:44):
Thanks John, I should have added that after finding my way to the national help desk for the VA, I was referred to HL7. HL7 referred me here to the FHIR community, where a member referred me here. I've no doubt that the VA has broken something, I just want to know what, and how to "prove" it.
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 13:52):
that sounds like bad advice from the VA national help desk.
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 13:53):
The VA is upgrading their FHIR API to R4, but it is still going to run the DSTU2 version for some time. The R4 version is just now being deployed, so it is possible Apple is getting confused. This really is something you need to go to Apple for. (And Apple is generally not here in the FHIR community, they don't really participate or help)
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 14:01):
on the positive side... it is possible that other Apple Healthkit users present here might be able to help you based on their personal experience in solving their similar problems... so good luck.
Michele Mottini (Nov 30 2021 at 14:08):
@Pascal Pfiffner
Michele Mottini (Nov 30 2021 at 14:10):
or @Ricky Bloomfield
David Pyke (Nov 30 2021 at 14:30):
You may want to move this into #united states and see if the people there can give pointers
James Vodnansky (Nov 30 2021 at 15:00):
Bad advice from the VA??? No way, can't be... :-)
That said, John, thank you for the advice and the time.
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 15:06):
I am being told that you might be well to contact MyHealtheVet help desk. I didn't suggest this as the FHIR API is managed by a totally different group within VHA. I am on the MyHealtheVet team, and we use those FHIR APIs; thus I figured we were not the right call center ...
So, try https://www.myhealth.va.gov/mhv-portal-web/web/myhealthevet/contact-us
James Vodnansky (Nov 30 2021 at 15:26):
@John Moehrke Thanks, of everywhere I have been sent, this is a new page, I'll try there. Just for reference, I stated with the Rockford CBOC, who referred me to the "Regional" MyHealtheVet help desk, who referred me to the "National" help desk, who referred me to HL7, who referred me to the FHIR stream, who referred me to the social stream. Headed back to fill out that form now. Very much appreciated.
James Vodnansky (Nov 30 2021 at 15:32):
@John Moehrke So it appears that the page does not allow me to input anything in the gray boxes, when I click on the "Search" icon on the right side of the line, a new window opens up with simply an error message. This window I cannot close unless I hit "Cancel" in the lower left of the screen. I don't mean to take up your time as I greatly appreciate what you've done so far.
Screen-Shot-2021-11-30-at-9.27.46-AM.png
Screen-Shot-2021-11-30-at-9.30.59-AM.png
John Moehrke (Nov 30 2021 at 15:47):
you are way outside my scope. please call them
Pascal Pfiffner (Nov 30 2021 at 17:09):
John Moehrke said:
(And Apple is generally not here in the FHIR community, they don't really participate or help)
Hey, you're hurting my feelings! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: :wink:
Pascal Pfiffner (Nov 30 2021 at 17:11):
@James Vodnansky , the VA is working on their implementation of panels, let me check with them. And let's continue this via DM.
Pascal Pfiffner (Nov 30 2021 at 17:17):
Also, the best way to get in touch with us is via http://feedbackassistant.apple.com . Those issues usually find their way to us.
Ricky Bloomfield (Nov 30 2021 at 17:28):
@John Moehrke We’re definitely engaged in the FHIR ecosystem, although we’re a very small team and can’t be everywhere at once (eg, the same team that works on standards is also very busy building our software features)! I represent Apple to HL7 and Argonaut as well as the ONC (on a couple HITAC workgroups). Happy to chat with you directly if you think there’s an area where we should be engaging more but are not. If there’s a specific issue that needs our attention here, please tag me or Pascal!
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 00:55):
Hi All, I used FHIR in the year 2017 and somehow ended up having a project called 'fhir-org-starter-project' and this is managed by fhir.org. I wanted myself to be removed from this project and free up my GCP account. Can someone please help? For reference, you can see that I am having a project in my Google Cloud Platform which is controlled by fhir.org.
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 01:04):
Having a project listed in your "recent" list should not be "using up" any resources or costing you anything -- but if you want to remove it from your "recent" list I'd recommend asking GCP help.
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 01:09):
Josh Mandel said:
Having a project listed in your "recent" list should not be "using up" any resources or costing you anything -- but if you want to remove it from your "recent" list I'd recommend asking GCP help.
@Josh Mandel Yeah it's not consuming resources but wanted it to be removed as I am no longer using it. I am not sure how I added it as well. Because I don't have any permission over it. Thanks, @Josh Mandel I will connect with GCP. But if you or the community has any way to remove me, it will be really helpful. Just attached a screenshot for ref.
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 01:37):
Btw @Josh Mandel is this project no longer is used 'fhir-org-starter-project' (as it was showing me ownership lies with fhir.org). Thanks a lot for answering :)
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 01:40):
The project still exists and is used for resources like build.fhir.org hosting
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 02:46):
Josh Mandel said:
The project still exists and is used for resources like build.fhir.org hosting
And as per the conversation is it not possible for the admin of the above project to remove my email Id from project members? Is there a support or customer care link where I can raise this query?
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 03:22):
You are not a project member; the project just has some public resources (e.g., sample data) that you accessed a few years ago, and evidently GCP considers that "recent".
John Moehrke (Dec 01 2021 at 12:40):
did you simply "Watch" it at one point, where you simply need to just "Unwatch"?
John Moehrke (Dec 01 2021 at 12:48):
looking at github project boards... There is a way the project manager can remove a member https://docs.github.com/en/issues/trying-out-the-new-projects-experience/managing-access-to-projects
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 13:59):
John Moehrke said:
looking at github project boards... There is a way the project manager can remove a member https://docs.github.com/en/issues/trying-out-the-new-projects-experience/managing-access-to-projects
@Josh Mandel I have attached a few screenshots where it asks me to contact the administrator for removal. And my email id to GCP is gshiv.sk@gmail.com . I will email GCP folks and get back to you. Thanks for helping!
@John Moehrke I am not sure. It was year 2017 when I was working on a proof of concept using the smarthealthit.org and fhir.org and this project got added. These are some of the screenshots from GCP where it asks me to contact the administrator so that I can be removed. These are just for reference. I will speak to GCP team to get this removed and get back to you guys. If you find something helpful to get me removed from the project, please let me know, I will highly appreciate it.
image.png image.png image.png image.png
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 14:26):
The screenshots seem to indicate that you have no permissions on the project except public permissions to access sample data in BigQuery
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 14:26):
Anyone in the public who is signed into any Google account would be in the same position as far as I can tell.
Josh Mandel (Dec 01 2021 at 14:27):
If you determine that you have any other permissions, please let me know; I reviewed and did not see any permissions to send to your account specifically.
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 15:03):
Sure @Josh Mandel . I will keep you updated with the same. I will review my account and email GCP team and get back. :)
Vivian Neilley (Dec 01 2021 at 15:30):
Josh Mandel said:
You are not a project member; the project just has some public resources (e.g., sample data) that you accessed a few years ago, and evidently GCP considers that "recent".
I think we just never re-named this project from a dev-days... whoops @Shiv Kumar Ganesh we have public bigquery datasets, including FHIR data on SQL, at bigquery-public-data (you can search that on BQ)
Vivian Neilley (Dec 01 2021 at 15:31):
@Shiv Kumar Ganesh if you want FHIR data in a json object I have a few public buckets, or you can generate via synthea - https://codelabs.developers.google.com/codelabs/fhir-to-bq#0
Shiv Kumar Ganesh (Dec 01 2021 at 22:25):
Vivian Neilley said:
Shiv Kumar Ganesh if you want FHIR data in a json object I have a few public buckets, or you can generate via synthea - https://codelabs.developers.google.com/codelabs/fhir-to-bq#0
Hi @Vivian Neilley I don't want the FHIR data, I just wanted myself to be removed form a project 'fhir-org-starter-project' that somehow is a part of my GCP list of Projects. Though I don't have any access to this project. As Josh mentioned, I will be emailing GCP team to remove it form my list. Thanks :)
Vivian Neilley (Dec 02 2021 at 16:05):
If you don't have access, it likely is showing your latest projects listed as Josh mentioned. Let me know if support is able to resolve this, if not, I'll take a look!
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 08:38):
Hi folks!
I'm new in FHIR. Yet, I want to create an API for my project to store and access FHIR data ...
I've read official HL7 pages and guidelines and I also researched and studied many resources about FHIR.
Now the question is:
Should I engineer & write my own FHIR api (I don't have a team but I'm able to engineer one if it's needed) or it is better for me to use some open source projects like Hapi or Assymetrik? Let's say do Hapi and Assymetric fully support all HL7 guidelines? Are they secure?
Do Hapi and Assymetrik also support FHIR's resource versioning?
Although I've even tried Google Healthcare API, what about such APIs like Google's or Microsoft's? Because I felt like these APIs are mostly for Analytic use cases for AI or DS rather than just storing and accessing the data.
René Spronk (Dec 09 2021 at 08:45):
It depends ;-). What are you trying to accomplish ?
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 08:48):
I want to have a shared FHIR server and in the future connect multiple healthcare related businesses to it to use the shared data across them.
It's like those businesses will have their own db and api to handle their needs yet they have to be able to CRUD FHIR data through interaction with that server.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 08:50):
I don't know if it's possible or appropriate but maybe I wanted to use that FHIR server to authenticate my users too?
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 09:41):
I just found out that Microsoft and IBM have FHIR server source codes on Github.
https://github.com/microsoft/fhir-server
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 09:42):
Are these standalone? I mean I can run them on a cloud server and use them without buying a service or an api key from them? Or not? Or something between?
René Spronk (Dec 09 2021 at 09:46):
There are indeed a couple of open source implementations. This forum is strictly vendor neutral, as such recommendations for specific (commercial) products are discouraged. The choice also depends on whatever dev framework / language you're using.
Re: cloud: many of these offerings are / can be cloud hosted. Not my area of expertise, perhaps other can comment on that aspect.
Grahame Grieve (Dec 09 2021 at 09:54):
I think that the google and Microsoft API offerings are intended to be suitable for transactional usage. The engineers are here and might want to comment. Most of the general purpose FHIR servers support versioning fully.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 09:55):
Right.
In the respects of language, I can develop in many languages including Java, Js, Py, Php, and so on ... :-D
And about cloud, I prefer to be able to deploy them on GCP servers.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 09:58):
I'm just confused as there are these open source options which apparently tell us that they can handle HL7 FHIR data.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 10:02):
Google and Ms services are mostly for analytical usages as far as I've read and tested their capabilities ...
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 10:02):
While all I want is CRUD :-D
Things I want:
CRUD
Security (To avoid HIPPA regulations)
Scalability
Full HL7 FHIR support
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 10:05):
Sajad Asadi said:
Google and Ms services are mostly optimized for analytical usages as far as I've read and tested their capabilities rather than storage & CRUD capabilities ...
First I wanna make sure that I'm right about this statement.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 10:05):
Sajad Asadi said:
I'm just confused as there are these open source options which apparently tell us that they can handle HL7 FHIR data.
Second I want to see if one of these options can fulfill my expectations.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 10:07):
Sajad Asadi said:
I'm just confused as there are these open source options which apparently tell us that they can handle HL7 FHIR data.
I'll also try to test these locally to assess their capabilities.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 13:14):
So far, after watching many videos, studying, and observations I think
Hapi and IBM can do the job for me.
Still there are some questions:
Can I deploy IBM on Google Cloud Services? (Like App Engine ...)
Which one of them are easier to deploy on such service?
As IBM FHIR is made by IBM, I suppose that it's more optimized for IBM cloud services?
Do both of them support batch operations? Like returning a list of resources?
Can I configure them with a Postgres SQL hosted on another server?
Which one is more scalable?
Which one has more capabilities?
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 13:33):
For now I have some ideas about Hapi
http://hapi.fhir.org/
Using this url
John Silva (Dec 09 2021 at 15:12):
There are a couple of articles comparing some of the cloud FHIR offerings:
https://vneilley.medium.com/are-all-fhir-apis-the-same-v2-e8d8359e1412 - AWS’ HealthLake versus Google Cloud’s Healthcare API
https://vneilley.medium.com/are-all-fhir-apis-the-same-48be75ac4ac5 - Microsoft Azure’s FHIR API versus Google Cloud’s Healthcare API
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 15:30):
Yeah thanks I've actually read them ... I messaged Vivian and asked her some questions ...
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 15:33):
About cloud based Apis, I'll go with Google if I see they'll work for my project.
The question is are they suitable for my case (Which I asked Vivian about) ...
Josh Mandel (Dec 09 2021 at 15:46):
(Keep in mind that that these comparison articles are written by a Google employee -- hi Vivian :-) As a Microsoft employee I'll just say: it's important to understand your own needs and usage patterns when evaluating infrastructure choices. For example, you might or might not care about the ability to run an open-source stack on your own, in addition to a subscription-based managed service in the cloud.)
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 15:53):
Yeah you're actually right ...
Managing an open-source project can come with some challenges when it comes to scalability.
Cooper Thompson (Dec 09 2021 at 15:54):
Also, if you are going to be loading data from an existing system in to the FHIR server, pay close attention to the data loading pipelines. We've seen a lot of folks really struggle to load data into generic FHIR servers via REST API. Converting from event-driven snapshots to REST API is hard and super annoying, and a lot of folks use event-driven message streams to sync existing data stores. REST API is great for a bunch of use cases, but it isn't a silver bullet.
See also: Transaction Processing and Ordering and Messaging to REST API conversion.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 15:58):
It's also a good point. Thanks
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 16:11):
So based on Josh's and Cooper's comments I think using a cloud managed api is more efficient than deploying an unmanaged api like IBM's or Hapi's especially that I probably have to scale my projects in the future
Paul Church (Dec 09 2021 at 17:18):
Yes, the Google Cloud Healthcare API is definitely meant for transactional use and lots of customers are using it that way.
For security, you might find the healthcare data protection toolkit useful to help with project configuration: https://cloud.google.com/architecture/setting-up-a-hipaa-aligned-project
One of the Healthcare API's main features is being highly scalable with zero configuration other than perhaps requesting a higher API quota. The largest single FHIR store in production was a 26.5 billion resource load test for this whitepaper: https://www.onixnet.com/gcp-healthcare-whitepaper - so far, no individual customer has surpassed this number but it's just a matter of time.
Details on what FHIR features the API supports can be found in the FHIR conformance statement: https://cloud.google.com/healthcare-api/docs/fhir
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 18:39):
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 09 2021 at 22:58):
Just to make sure and for more clarity, can you explain transactional use? Maybe some pros and cons about it?
Paul Church (Dec 10 2021 at 21:21):
Use for real-time read/write applications with OLTP requirements.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 10 2021 at 21:36):
Hm ...
Sajad Asadi (Dec 10 2021 at 21:38):
Another question.
Is it possible for us to migrate from an unmanaged system like Hapi or IBM's to Healthcare API in the future?
As Google Healthcare API has a bulk import ability?
Paul Church (Dec 10 2021 at 21:55):
sure, you could likely migrate between fhir implementations - might take a bit of testing to make sure your client applications aren't relying on a feature that is supported by one but not the other
Sajad Asadi (Dec 11 2021 at 05:14):
The only remaining thing is this article:
https://www.ibm.com/blogs/watson-health/ibm-fhir-server-vs-hapi-jpa/
It says IBM fhir is way faster Hapi .... But it's written by IBM :-D
So I suspect that if this article is biased.
And on the other hand I can see Hapi has a great community and has more Github stars and it's more supported by FHIR organization
Sajad Asadi (Dec 11 2021 at 05:14):
On the other hand it makes sense that IBM has more performance .... Hapi uses an ORM and I'm not a fan of ORMs
Sajad Asadi (Dec 11 2021 at 05:26):
I'll test the IBM's searching capabilities if it passes I'll go with IBM .... :-D
And about the Cloud services, I may migrate in the future if it's needed.
Sajad Asadi (Dec 11 2021 at 05:35):
Thanks all for helping me out.
Sreenivas Dunna (Jan 19 2022 at 14:26):
@Sajad Asadi , did you get the chance to check search capabilities IBM FHIR server?
Sreenivas Dunna (Jan 19 2022 at 14:27):
can someone please suggest which FHIR server is great support of the multi-tenancy?
ANSHUL KASHYAP (Feb 01 2022 at 17:48):
Hi Everyone, I am an android development enthusiast and well familiar with Java and Kotlin. I want to start my open source contribution journey from FHIR. I would be very grateful if you will provide me with some guidance to start my contribution and path to follow contribution in projects.
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 01 2022 at 17:51):
@ANSHUL KASHYAP This isn't an OpenMRS-specific community and they don't have a specific stream here. Have you tried reaching out to them directly? Do you know what sort of open-source work you're hoping to do?
ANSHUL KASHYAP (Feb 01 2022 at 18:03):
Lloyd McKenzie said:
ANSHUL KASHYAP This isn't an OpenMRS-specific community and they don't have a specific stream here. Have you tried reaching out to them directly? Do you know what sort of open-source work you're hoping to do?
Sorry @Lloyd McKenzie Sir, I mismatched the organization name.
René Spronk (Feb 01 2022 at 19:36):
Your contribution to FHIR will be welcome - note however that FHIR is an interoperability standard, which is used/implemented using many different technologies and stacks (such implementations are not part of the FHIR spec, but they are of course relevant to the FHIR community). Try asking the #hapi stream on this forum (which is where the Java pundits hang out).
René Spronk (Feb 01 2022 at 19:39):
(this topic is a duplicate, continued on #implementers )
Muta Jonathan (Feb 04 2022 at 05:58):
Hlo ....am Muta Jonathan from Uganda from Uganda ......would like to get started with FHIR
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 04 2022 at 06:03):
Welcome @Muta Jonathan! What reading/exploring have you done so far?
Muta Jonathan (Feb 04 2022 at 08:35):
@Lloyd McKenzie Have done so introduction on the H7 FHIR https://www.hl7.org/fhir/overview.html
Lloyd McKenzie (Feb 04 2022 at 14:55):
I'd browse through most of introductory text, the REST page and take a look at a few resources. Then do a web search on "FHIR video introduction" and watch one or two of those, then try playing with one of the reference implementations.
Jayant Singh (Mar 04 2022 at 11:28):
I'm trying to install HAPI server using this repo
https://github.com/hapifhir/hapi-fhir-jpaserver-starter
I installed maven and run the command: mvn jetty:run
After some time I got the bellow error
[INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------------------
[INFO] BUILD FAILURE
[INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------------------
[INFO] Total time: 5.043 s
[INFO] Finished at: 2022-03-04T16:56:26+05:30
[INFO] ------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ERROR] Failed to execute goal org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-enforcer-plugin:3.0.0:enforce (enforce-maven) on project hapi-fhir-jpaserver-starter: Some Enforcer rules have failed. Look above for specific messages explaining why the rule failed. -> [Help 1]
[ERROR]
[ERROR] To see the full stack trace of the errors, re-run Maven with the -e switch.
[ERROR] Re-run Maven using the -X switch to enable full debug logging.
[ERROR]
[ERROR] For more information about the errors and possible solutions, please read the following articles:
[ERROR] [Help 1] http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/MojoExecutionException
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 04 2022 at 14:53):
Support with HAPI is best sought here: #hapi
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
