Stream: social
Topic: HL7 v3
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 15:41):
What is the status of HL7 v3 (other than CDA use)?
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 15:41):
It's stable but being slowly moved to history
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:00):
so there has been some formal declaration?
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:28):
They have not been formally deprecated but there has been a statement that no new work will be done on the V3 RIM and some IGs will be withdrawn if they are inactive. Workgroups now have to provide proof that a V3 IG is needed before an STU can be extended or renewed.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:29):
will the V3 specification be made publicly available? (Or do I simply not know where it is publicly published? It seems to be only behind the membership wall.)
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 30 2022 at 16:37):
I'm in favor of making things publicly available in general. However, do we want to do that with a spec that it would be ill-advised for implementers to pick up?
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:41):
I am more interested in accessibility to specification that is currently in use. For example IHE-XCPD is used for patient discovery in cross-community health exchanges, and it uses v3. But, today someone trying to use that very specific specification can't get access to the underlying specification. Refusing to publish the specification does not make the problem go away. That said, I do have sympathy for not promulgating use of v3 that re not in current use.
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 30 2022 at 16:42):
How long has IHE-XCPD been around? How much of a problem has it been?
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:43):
XCPD has been around since 2010
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:43):
There is an on-line version but that is a members-only, you would need to talk to the Powers That Be to get access otherwise
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 30 2022 at 16:44):
So, if it's been working for 12 years, I'm hard-pressed to understand the driver for a change now...
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:45):
There's a lot of broken links in profiles.ihe.net
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:45):
ask @David Pyke who put in a Change-Proposal on the IHE Technical framework.... saying he couldn't get to the specification.
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 16:47):
V3 specs are available as a download, not hosted publicly. There is a members-only version (benefit of membership!) at http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/private/standards/v3/edition_web/welcome/environment/index.html
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:47):
understood... hence why I asked if there was any movement to make it not members only.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:48):
seems the answer is "no".
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 16:48):
and the V3 domains are being retired one by one as they come up for reaffirmation and the WG does not intend to maintain or enhance them
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 16:48):
correct, no. :shrug:
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:48):
fair. Ask a question and you might not get the answer you want.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 16:49):
it seems IHE is going to need to direct all our links to V3 to a landing page that explains these facts.
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 16:49):
can start with https://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/product_brief.cfm?product_id=186
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 30 2022 at 16:59):
I think board policy is that we're allowed to make all of our specs publicly available now. The only question is whether that's truly in the best interests of the community going forward. If we did do so, I'd sort of like to put a wrapper around it that says "This has been made publicly available to support existing use, however this content is not endorsed for net new adoption" or something like that.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:04):
that would be most excellent. I have 567 links in the IHE ITI Technical Framework to v3.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:04):
all currently going to v3 ballot 2007 -- which likely was not proper.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:05):
they are deep links.. so a shame to lose those deep links. for example
<a href="http://hl7.org/v3ballot2007may/html/infrastructure/rim/rim.htm#QueryByParameter-cls">QueryByParameter</a>
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 17:09):
if you're linking to the RIM which version is appropriate? 2007 is not the latest.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:11):
but I am guessing the latest is just as not-available
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:12):
I recognized above that I note the links IHE currently is using was likely not proper... oops, wasn't me.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:16):
also
- datatypes - e.g. http://hl7.org/v3ballot2007may/html/infrastructure/datatypes/datatypes.htm#dt-II
- vocabulary - e.g. http://hl7.org/v3ballot2007may/html/infrastructure/vocabulary/QueryStatusCode.htm#QueryStatusCode
- uvci - e.g., http://hl7.org/v3ballot2007may/html/domains/uvci/uvci_GenericMessageTransmission.htm
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:18):
all result in a 404 from HL7 web-site... would be nice if HL7 redirected these to their v3 product_brief
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:25):
I can easily change the root to something HL7 would like, while not changing the path or anchor
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:26):
or I change them all to drop the user at the product brief.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:26):
either will be nicer to the user than a 404 from the hl7 website
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 17:31):
we have moved these from the original locally hosted archive and the URLs have changed. you may want to use the most recent: replace the hl7.org/v3ballot2007may... with http://v3ballot.hl7.org/v3ballotarchive/v3ballot2018jan
Lynn Laakso (Mar 30 2022 at 17:32):
see also http://www.hl7.org/v3ballotarchive/v3ballot/html/
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:33):
Changing the root of the url to http://www.hl7.org/v3ballotarchive/v3ballot/html fixes John's problem
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:34):
As long as he's good with the latest ballot version
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 17:56):
Note that the IG publisher (for FHIR IGs) puts in links to http://hl7.org/comparison-v3.html and http://hl7.org/v3 -- which also give 404
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:00):
David Pyke said:
Changing the root of the url to http://www.hl7.org/v3ballotarchive/v3ballot/html fixes John's problem
This does seem to fix my links.. but is it the right thing?
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:00):
http://www.hl7.org/v3ballotarchive/v3ballot/html/domains/uvci/uvci_GenericMessageTransmission.htm
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:01):
instead of http://hl7.org/v3ballot2007may/html/domains/uvci/uvci_GenericMessageTransmission.htm
David Pyke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:02):
That seems to be the same information (based on memory, not a hard knowledge of V3)
Elliot Silver (Mar 30 2022 at 18:03):
Lynn Laakso said:
V3 specs are available as a download, not hosted publicly. There is a members-only version (benefit of membership!) at http://www.hl7.org/documentcenter/private/standards/v3/edition_web/welcome/environment/index.html
What about linking to something under this root? If I'm understanding correctly, that is more recent/correct than the ballot version. The downside is that if you don't have HL7 membership, you don't have access, but isn't that needed anyhow to implement v3?
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:19):
note the link Dave found does not require membership
Elliot Silver (Mar 30 2022 at 18:20):
Yes, but it also isn't the published version.
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:20):
PR created -- https://github.com/IHE/publications/pull/161
John Moehrke (Mar 30 2022 at 18:20):
I am also creating a PR where I just remove all links
Er.Madhav Adhikari (Mar 31 2022 at 08:31):
Hello, as per the hl7 release document(https://vico.org/CDAR22005_HL7SP/infrastructure/cda/cda.htm#link) , we come to know that narrative block and entry block consists same level of data structure , however, my vendor sent file where some narrative data were missed in the entry tag. Could you please help me ? how this work narrative and entry section?
Mac Elux (Mar 31 2022 at 13:22):
Hi everyone, it's good to be here.
I am new in FHIR and so I have a question to ask.
What do I need to do if I were to build an FHIR production server or what other production servers would you recommend?
David Pyke (Mar 31 2022 at 13:28):
You should start with separate threads for new topics.
Your question is too broad. If you can narrow it down to specific questions, we can help you better.
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 31 2022 at 15:16):
@Er.Madhav Adhikari This is probably best asked in #CDA
Er.Madhav Adhikari (Mar 31 2022 at 15:27):
ok I will ask in CDA stream.
Er.Madhav Adhikari (Mar 31 2022 at 15:32):
@Lloyd McKenzie I can not find the CDA stream. Do you mea i need to ask CDA officer or in this community chat?
David Pyke (Mar 31 2022 at 15:35):
Lloyd McKenzie (Mar 31 2022 at 15:41):
Click on the #CDA stream. There are a lot of streams available. When you first sign up, you're only registered on a couple of them by default. Click on the icons beside the "STREAMS" label to see them all.
Er.Madhav Adhikari (Mar 31 2022 at 15:42):
@Lloyd McKenzie sorry for inconvenienced . I am new to this form . Now I got it.
Brendan Keeler (Apr 01 2022 at 12:48):
Standards behind paywalls put them at a distinct developer experience disadvantage to proprietary formats
Brendan Keeler (Apr 01 2022 at 12:48):
XCPD et al are still incredibly hard to develop to for new entrants
Brendan Keeler (Apr 01 2022 at 12:49):
But they're in TEFCA and popular in other countries too
Brendan Keeler (Apr 01 2022 at 12:50):
Publish V3 publicly. Hiding tribal knowledge does no one any good
David Pyke (Apr 01 2022 at 12:50):
It is available for download for free. It's just not web published for non-member
John Moehrke (Apr 01 2022 at 13:18):
Given research by @David Pyke and advice from @Lynn Laakso ; I have proposed two different methods of improving the IHE Technical Framework that relies on HL7 v3. (including XCPD). Will see which alternative the committee and community likes.
David Pyke (Apr 01 2022 at 13:19):
I'm for the one that translates all of ITI TF2 to use X12 messages
John Moehrke (Apr 01 2022 at 13:19):
David Pyke said:
I'm for the one that translates all of ITI TF2 to use X12 messages
#AprilFools
David Pyke (Apr 01 2022 at 13:20):
Really? That needed to be said?
Last updated: Apr 12 2022 at 19:14 UTC
